Real Fans Pay!!!! (lyrics, alternative, house, rock, cd)

Sarah Sings · 07-07-2008, 10:43 AM

Hi Guys,

I am posting this because I am fedup with the push towards "free" music promoted in the media and on certain web portals who make advertising money off the back of our music but give us pennies (or zero!) in return!

iTunes, Prince and Mcfly have completely devalued the worth of the "album" by breaking it down into only the most catchy songs (iTunes) or giving it away for free!

I believe that a lot of Independent Artists write their music as an album, something to be heard in it's entirety and something which they can then sell and earn a living from - NOT something to be streamed, downloaded or given away for free or for pennies via the major networks who make their money from advertising to the fans we bring to their site!

My name's Sarah and I am behind the Real Fans Pay Campaign on MySpace. If you want to join in the discussion around independent artists and labels earning a living from our music then please visit myspacedotcom/realfanspay and voice your feelings!

See you there

Son of JayJamJah · 07-07-2008, 11:45 AM

Nothing anyone except the artist does can devalue their music.

Music should be free if an artist wants it to be or allows it to be. Albums offer more then just a song as you mention, they are a collection, there is artwork, there are lyrics, their are messages, thanks, credits to behind the scene's people and they are an item worth treasuring. Fans who do not appreciate albums should not have to pay $20 for a collection of 8-15 songs without knowing how many if any they'll like. If you lose or damage a record or CD you should not have to but the entire album again, just replace the music. Itunes and the like allow that. They are nothing but good for music, they make your music available worldwide at a moments notice, something all who record music for people to hear should want.

Paying money for something does not give it value to anyone other then yourself and the person being paid.

The real value of music is how it tells stories, touches people, changes lives and keeps things in perspective. There is no one in the record industry hurting anymore now then they were pre-internet music, quite the contrary actually.

lucifer_sam · 07-07-2008, 12:35 PM

I agree to somewhat of a degree. Although I don't think it's right for fans to rip off music for free, I think it is essential for free downloads to be allowed to promote bands. In earlier decades, bands became popular because of some freak phenomena: they were recognized for their talent, an album was spread by word of mouth, or they toured until their ass was sore and developed a fan base from there. Nowadays, a band can have fans at the click of a button from all over the globe. I'm not saying it's right. But it's certainly much faster this way.

Now, if you so despise iTunes, PLEASE consider the alternative: people purchasing NO music. And I hate to say it, but that's the way the cookie crumbles nowadays. Bands release good songs now instead of good albums. The era of album-oriented rock has long since passed in favor of a generation that buys what they hear on the radio. And the only way that bands can make money off this is to sell singles...or use iTunes. Would you rather us pay twice as much in the store for the album?

I know, there are people that never pay a cent for music. There are others who snatch up everything on a whim and therefore buy some of the worst albums ever produced. There are still others, like myself, who support the music industry by buying the music that they enjoy, but not shelling out their paychecks to discover crap. And if you are so offended by this manifesto, then please, do not expect me to listen to music anymore.

jackhammer · 07-07-2008, 04:09 PM

She has signed off 'see you there' so I don't expect her to come back and engage in some debate about this area of music. I hope I am proved wrong though.

Sarah Sings · 07-08-2008, 05:29 AM

Hey! I am all about the debate thank you! that is the purpose of my post to get people talking about money and music!

JayJamJah - You should know I am not against Itunes! why would I be!? People PAY for music on there!

I don't like the way it has downgraded the album but most albums are not worth paying for anyway - too packed out with filler for my liking.

But that's just my preference if people want to cherry pick out the best singles then let them - Just make sure that if they want to buy the album there is still an option for them to do so!

I like the phrase "Paying money for something does not give it value to anyone other then yourself and the person being paid." I would agree with that but the point is that if a musician wants to make a living from their music then they should be allowed to do so. If the public don't want to pay for it then they won't - That solves that problem!

I am not interested in those who want to give away their music for free - that is their choice and I respect that - My page is about those who want to earn a living from their music!

Lucifer Sam "There are still others, like myself, who support the music industry by buying the music that they enjoy, but not shelling out their paychecks to discover crap."

The point is that some people enjoy albums!?!?! My favourite album (today) Is the original one by Keane every song on their I feel was single worthy - and it is SO RARE to find an album like that.

I feel that Amy Winehouse's album had 2 or 3 god-awful tracks on there but I really enjoyed Tori Amos The Beekeeper because it took me on a journey - She created a story with her album which could not be re-created with singles and I appreciate that.

Some people don't that's fine - Stick to your singles I am simply saying that whether it's singles, albums, gigs or anything else if the Artist feels they would like a financial reward from it they they should be able to ask for one without feeling like some kind of filthy money-grabber!

Ghostrider · 07-13-2008, 08:50 PM

Having just recently become part of the internet P2P/Torrent universe, I agree with JJJ, a CD by a band you like has more to offer than just the download from i-tunes. I have downloaded 4 complete rare albums from the i-tunes+ catalog replacing some old albums I lost in a fire 7 years ago. I really like the idea of acquiring music simply by logging in and selecting what you like, and the catalog of music is getting larger every week. However,,,I truly wish that i-tunes offered me the full WAV format too, I don't have an i-pod and only listen to my music on my surround system, in fact I use my computer to edit etc. but then I burn a disc in WAV format when I want to listen to it. There is a dramatic difference in quality from MP3/AAC format and a regular CD that you've bought or a FLAC/WAV file you've downloaded. If all you listen to are ear-buds/headphones then maybe it's not so noticeable, but when I do a direct comparison the compressed versions are lacking in the frequency response in many areas. My whole career in music has been to attain the best reproduction possible within reason and I feel that we are losing some of the quality by offering diluted versions without the option of the full frequency that we should have access to from i-tunes etc.

Oh, and Sarah, when I find an album I Really Like,,,I buy the CD. Last year CD sales represented about 80% of the total music sales, people still like having the product in their hand more than on their HD. I'm not sure what the figures are this year, maybe they have lost more ground, I'll look into it and see what I can find out. Finally, out of every $10.00 from a CD sale, the artist/band only get around $1.70,,,and that is just Wrong! Because of the versatility/convenience of downloading music, I've discovered many new bands and have purchased about 40 CD's over the last 6 months, that I would never have bought without checking them out online first.

Alfred · 07-13-2008, 09:44 PM

If I like a band enough, then I'll buy their CD.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 07-14-2008, 04:02 PM

Shit like this always makes me laugh.

Anyone would think piracy is a new thing. Before filesharing networks existed there was tape trading , recording off the radio , making copies from friends , and what about buying 2nd and copies.
If I buy a second hand album the musician isn't getting any money from it , does that make me pirate scum?

If I download £500 worth of albums for free i'm not taking any money from anybody because i'm not stupid enough to spend £500 on albums in the first place , so how am I taking money away from people when they would have never got it from me in the first place ?
Music is an artform. I'll pay to see a band live , i'll pay to own a CD but why the hell should I pay to hear a song? Painters don't charge you to look at paintings.

The thought that these poor musicians are suddenly finding themselves ripped off is a fallacy. There has never been any money in music , only for a select few. That isn't going to change because a few more people buy albums ,as it's already been stated musicians make next to nothing on record sales anyway.

You want to make money as a musician then get your ass out and play. If playing 2 or 3 shows a day was good enough for the Beatles then it's good enough for you.

Plenty of bands put out good albums while working day jobs or having other careers so if you have no money then it's your own fault for getting yourself into that situation in the first place.

adidasss · 07-14-2008, 06:20 PM

^ A-fucking-men.

xOlipticlex · 07-15-2008, 10:09 AM

lol agreed

07-07-2008, 10:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
Sarah Sings Groupie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2	Real Fans Pay!!!! Hi Guys, I am posting this because I am fedup with the push towards "free" music promoted in the media and on certain web portals who make advertising money off the back of our music but give us pennies (or zero!) in return! iTunes, Prince and Mcfly have completely devalued the worth of the "album" by breaking it down into only the most catchy songs (iTunes) or giving it away for free! I believe that a lot of Independent Artists write their music as an album, something to be heard in it's entirety and something which they can then sell and earn a living from - NOT something to be streamed, downloaded or given away for free or for pennies via the major networks who make their money from advertising to the fans we bring to their site! My name's Sarah and I am behind the Real Fans Pay Campaign on MySpace. If you want to join in the discussion around independent artists and labels earning a living from our music then please visit myspacedotcom/realfanspay and voice your feelings! See you there

07-07-2008, 12:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
lucifer_sam Unrepentant Ass-Mod Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 3,921	I agree to somewhat of a degree. Although I don't think it's right for fans to rip off music for free, I think it is essential for free downloads to be allowed to promote bands. In earlier decades, bands became popular because of some freak phenomena: they were recognized for their talent, an album was spread by word of mouth, or they toured until their ass was sore and developed a fan base from there. Nowadays, a band can have fans at the click of a button from all over the globe. I'm not saying it's right. But it's certainly much faster this way. Now, if you so despise iTunes, PLEASE consider the alternative: people purchasing NO music. And I hate to say it, but that's the way the cookie crumbles nowadays. Bands release good songs now instead of good albums. The era of album-oriented rock has long since passed in favor of a generation that buys what they hear on the radio. And the only way that bands can make money off this is to sell singles...or use iTunes. Would you rather us pay twice as much in the store for the album? I know, there are people that never pay a cent for music. There are others who snatch up everything on a whim and therefore buy some of the worst albums ever produced. There are still others, like myself, who support the music industry by buying the music that they enjoy, but not shelling out their paychecks to discover crap. And if you are so offended by this manifesto, then please, do not expect me to listen to music anymore. __________________ first.am

07-07-2008, 04:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
jackhammer Ba and Be. Join Date: May 2007 Location: This Is England Posts: 17,331	She has signed off 'see you there' so I don't expect her to come back and engage in some debate about this area of music. I hope I am proved wrong though. __________________ It be my music and film collection. “A cynic by experience, a romantic by inclination and now a hero by necessity.”

07-13-2008, 09:44 PM	#7 (permalink)
Alfred one big soul Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Canada Posts: 5,096	If I like a band enough, then I'll buy their CD. __________________ LAST.FM / VINYL COLLECTION / RYM

07-14-2008, 04:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	Shit like this always makes me laugh. Anyone would think piracy is a new thing. Before filesharing networks existed there was tape trading , recording off the radio , making copies from friends , and what about buying 2nd and copies. If I buy a second hand album the musician isn't getting any money from it , does that make me pirate scum? If I download £500 worth of albums for free i'm not taking any money from anybody because i'm not stupid enough to spend £500 on albums in the first place , so how am I taking money away from people when they would have never got it from me in the first place ? Music is an artform. I'll pay to see a band live , i'll pay to own a CD but why the hell should I pay to hear a song? Painters don't charge you to look at paintings. The thought that these poor musicians are suddenly finding themselves ripped off is a fallacy. There has never been any money in music , only for a select few. That isn't going to change because a few more people buy albums ,as it's already been stated musicians make next to nothing on record sales anyway. You want to make money as a musician then get your ass out and play. If playing 2 or 3 shows a day was good enough for the Beatles then it's good enough for you. Plenty of bands put out good albums while working day jobs or having other careers so if you have no money then it's your own fault for getting yourself into that situation in the first place. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

07-07-2008, 11:45 AM	#2 (permalink)
Son of JayJamJah Occams Razor Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: End of the Earth Posts: 2,472	Nothing anyone except the artist does can devalue their music. Music should be free if an artist wants it to be or allows it to be. Albums offer more then just a song as you mention, they are a collection, there is artwork, there are lyrics, their are messages, thanks, credits to behind the scene's people and they are an item worth treasuring. Fans who do not appreciate albums should not have to pay $20 for a collection of 8-15 songs without knowing how many if any they'll like. If you lose or damage a record or CD you should not have to but the entire album again, just replace the music. Itunes and the like allow that. They are nothing but good for music, they make your music available worldwide at a moments notice, something all who record music for people to hear should want. Paying money for something does not give it value to anyone other then yourself and the person being paid. The real value of music is how it tells stories, touches people, changes lives and keeps things in perspective. There is no one in the record industry hurting anymore now then they were pre-internet music, quite the contrary actually.

07-08-2008, 05:29 AM	#5 (permalink)
Sarah Sings Groupie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 2	Hey! I am all about the debate thank you! that is the purpose of my post to get people talking about money and music! JayJamJah - You should know I am not against Itunes! why would I be!? People PAY for music on there! I don't like the way it has downgraded the album but most albums are not worth paying for anyway - too packed out with filler for my liking. But that's just my preference if people want to cherry pick out the best singles then let them - Just make sure that if they want to buy the album there is still an option for them to do so! I like the phrase "Paying money for something does not give it value to anyone other then yourself and the person being paid." I would agree with that but the point is that if a musician wants to make a living from their music then they should be allowed to do so. If the public don't want to pay for it then they won't - That solves that problem! I am not interested in those who want to give away their music for free - that is their choice and I respect that - My page is about those who want to earn a living from their music! Lucifer Sam "There are still others, like myself, who support the music industry by buying the music that they enjoy, but not shelling out their paychecks to discover crap." The point is that some people enjoy albums!?!?! My favourite album (today) Is the original one by Keane every song on their I feel was single worthy - and it is SO RARE to find an album like that. I feel that Amy Winehouse's album had 2 or 3 god-awful tracks on there but I really enjoyed Tori Amos The Beekeeper because it took me on a journey - She created a story with her album which could not be re-created with singles and I appreciate that. Some people don't that's fine - Stick to your singles I am simply saying that whether it's singles, albums, gigs or anything else if the Artist feels they would like a financial reward from it they they should be able to ask for one without feeling like some kind of filthy money-grabber!

07-13-2008, 08:50 PM	#6 (permalink)
Ghostrider Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 131	Having just recently become part of the internet P2P/Torrent universe, I agree with JJJ, a CD by a band you like has more to offer than just the download from i-tunes. I have downloaded 4 complete rare albums from the i-tunes+ catalog replacing some old albums I lost in a fire 7 years ago. I really like the idea of acquiring music simply by logging in and selecting what you like, and the catalog of music is getting larger every week. However,,,I truly wish that i-tunes offered me the full WAV format too, I don't have an i-pod and only listen to my music on my surround system, in fact I use my computer to edit etc. but then I burn a disc in WAV format when I want to listen to it. There is a dramatic difference in quality from MP3/AAC format and a regular CD that you've bought or a FLAC/WAV file you've downloaded. If all you listen to are ear-buds/headphones then maybe it's not so noticeable, but when I do a direct comparison the compressed versions are lacking in the frequency response in many areas. My whole career in music has been to attain the best reproduction possible within reason and I feel that we are losing some of the quality by offering diluted versions without the option of the full frequency that we should have access to from i-tunes etc. Oh, and Sarah, when I find an album I Really Like,,,I buy the CD. Last year CD sales represented about 80% of the total music sales, people still like having the product in their hand more than on their HD. I'm not sure what the figures are this year, maybe they have lost more ground, I'll look into it and see what I can find out. Finally, out of every $10.00 from a CD sale, the artist/band only get around $1.70,,,and that is just Wrong! Because of the versatility/convenience of downloading music, I've discovered many new bands and have purchased about 40 CD's over the last 6 months, that I would never have bought without checking them out online first.

07-14-2008, 06:20 PM	#9 (permalink)
adidasss Slavic gay sauce Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Abu Dhabi Posts: 7,993	^ A-fucking-men. __________________ “Think of what a paradise this world would be if men were kind and wise.” - Kurt Vonnegut, Cat's Cradle. Last.fm Last edited by adidasss; 07-15-2008 at 10:47 AM.

07-15-2008, 10:09 AM	#10 (permalink)
xOlipticlex Groupie Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 3	lol agreed