Why do need to do this, are planning to join the Boston Pop Orchestra?

First off start practising scales at the age of six unless you are a child prodigy I can't see you doing this - someone handing you a score and you breeze right through it the very first time. Having the sheet music in front of you is more like a mnemonic to help you through the dodgy bits you don't know well, but you still have to learn the piece beforehand. Traditional notation is still important to Classical guitar. You haven't learn anything on guitar from tradition notation?

Never.

As for why I need to do it - I just don't want to pore over a grand stave and have it take 20 minutes to decipher 4 bars.

How good are you at reading traditional music notation?

Awful, hence my question.

Well there is so much stuff out there as far as books/CD for beginners, scales, songs - I wouldn't know where to start.

One of the first songs I learned was by reading traditional notation for guitar, and it took 20 minutes to learn one bar, because I was learning how to read at the same time. I only knew where middle C was and I had start from that note to figure everything else out, it took a lot of time at first but became easier as time went by.

Every instrument has something easier and more difficult about it compared to other instruments. Sax is a little more easier compare to guitar because it is a melodic instrument (you play one note at a time) but then there are other things about it like embouchure etc etc - you might need a instructor in the beginning to teach you those things.

I'm surprised that you play guitar (I'm only guessing form your user-name) and you hadn't had experience with traditional notation. I rely heavily on TAB but if there's a song I want to learn and that's the only music for it I forced myself to read traditional notation.

I can read music, but only if I'm very careful and take forever over it.

As for not having experience with traditional notation... I know my rythms, I know my clefs, I know how it all works and whatnot.

I just haven't ever had a reason to transcribe or learn from, so my intuitive understanding of scores is weak.

Good question, GuitarBizarre.

I recently got into a sight reading kick myself, and Neapolitan's over-exageration of people that want to be in the Boston Pop Orchestra are the only ones who benefit from proper sight reading is kind of hilarious.

Sight reading can benefit all musicians, whether they are playing by ear, just learning, or have a masters in the subject.

It makes LEARNING music faster. Instead of spending 20 minutes on 4 measure, a proper sight reader can cut that down to a fraction of the time. It's being able to cut that time down so much that it feels like you get it right the first time (or two) that makes it ever so much more impressive.

Further being able to sight read makes you a stronger musician anyway. It's another skill to your tool belt, and other people you play with will be thankful for it.

Picture this - you are in a band with 3 other guys. You play guitar, you got a guy on drums, another on bass, and another on keys. One of you has to sing and play at the same time. No problem cuz your'e good enough, so don't worry. One of you writes the music for the parts, because, well, they can.

Learning a part from a notated system is magic. It's not the easiest thing in the world, but it does help. And it's all about speed at that point. If you're still on measure 4 when the rest of the group is on page 5, they might start looking for another guitarist.

It's just like reading English. You ever read with a slow reader? You read over their shoulder; you're both reading silently. Then you get to the end of the page, waiting for them to flip the page, then you can't help thinking, "Omg. They're still not done? I've been done for 10 min now." Or maybe the slow reader is you. ;)

So the question is - how do you go about getting this awesome skill of awesome?

Start basic. Play simple things. Things you can go through once, twice, three times at the most and have down. Even if it's twinkle twinkle little star. You have to start somewhere.

Try playing it in four or five different keys. Transpose IN YOUR HEAD only. This makes it more difficult. :) Go slow, but keep your rhythm even. Count out loud. 1 ... 2... 3... 4... 1... 2... 3... 4...

Keep yourself honest. Clap rhythms too. Find a rhythm pattern on a piece of music, and just clap it in time. Also, sing the melody lines. Yes, sing. With your mouth. You can do it in private of course, if you don't like your voice. If you can create it with your vocal chords, you can play it that much better. By being able to do that, you'll be able to get a sense of the music in your head before you even touch your guitar.

To keep track when you're singing, give yourself a starting pitch (hopefully in your register). Then sing. When you're not sure, sing first, then check the note. If you're right, keep going. If you're off, fix that one pitch, and keep going.

Rules of sight reading:
1. Go slow and even.
2. Don't start over; even if you made so many mistakes. Finish. Always finish. Keep going.
3. Practice daily for at least a half hour.

These will help you become a better sight reader. When the examples you find are easy, move onto harder stuff. Baby steps will ensure growth.

GuitarreBizarre (sp.?)

Essentially, learn your scales. Those are ****ing important. I learned that with French horn.

Aside from that, arpeggios are great on guitar and piano; you really get a sense of where everything is on your instrument, which could aid you infinitely.

Then, just acknowledge that you don't know an iota of what you've tried to learn, and play by feel alone. You'll be infinitely more expressive than Orianthi or the like, but you'll still know how things come together.

What key is this progression in? A minor/C major/E7/A# major.

I can't figure it out. I think it's because a minor and a# major dont technically belong together.

No, they don't belong together, which means one of them is being borrowed from another key. A# major is also known as Bb major, so that may put a different perspective on things in terms of figuring out the key. There are a couple of possibilities, and all of them have chords borrowed from other keys:

a minor: the chords of Am and E7 both fit (I and V). However, the IV chord is generally minor in a minor key - so this particular progression would normally be Am, Cm, E7. So the C chord is borrowed from a related key - C major. Following so far? I'm trying not to be too technical here :o:

The other possibility is Bb major (it's not normally called A# major), but this is a long shot as E is the IV chord, which doesn't normally have a 7th added to it in a standard progression. As well, the C chord should technically be minor because it's a ii chord, and it's rare that the IV would follow ii and then move straight to I and skip V. I don't know... There are a few things happening here.

I'm also thinking that this short progression is actually part of a modulation from one key to another key, or at least a tonicization of another key.

Is there more to this progression? I need some context. I'm going with the idea that it's borrowing a chord or two from a related key, but that particular progression you shared is not long enough for it.

If that's it, then it's an interesting progression no matter what!

I probably over thought this too much lol

I was just screwing around on my guitar, thought the descending bass line sounded cool. It's just something that sprung upon me and I haven't had the chance to mess around with it some more. I was just trying to get the key signature so I could mess around with some soloing, but i couldn't figure it out. It totally slipped my mind that it can also be called Bb.

How about e minor/b minor/ a minor?

What key is it? It looks like those chords fall under the key of G major, but that doesnt make sense. As I'm soloing over the progression, the notes B and D sound the most like the tonic. I can't figure it out.

That's e minor. Except for it to work the progression should be Em/Am/B(7). This follows the standard formula of I - IV - V7 (or in this case it would be i - iv - V7). The 5th chord (V7) is always major.

Even if I threw a g and a c major in there it wouldn't be in G? I was looking at my key chart and all those chords fall under G major. I was doing some soloing over the progression and I found some notes that worked, so I kept messing around discovered it was the G major scale I was playing. It sounds weird that the G major scale would work over those minor chords, but it does. I'll do some soloing in E and see if that sounds better.

blastingas 10:
"What key is this progression in? A minor/C major/E7/A# major."

Burning Down was correct that you can make that A# major chord into a Bb Major one.

Doing this will give you the neapolitan effect (bII). It is, as notated, a Major triad built on the b2. You can label this as "N6" (they're usually found in their first inversion) or just simply "N" if you're feeling crafty.

Your whole progression then (in the key of a minor of course) is then : i III V7 N(6). Pretty simple. Remember than Neapolitans are usually predominant functions, so they usually want to go to a V or a vii. Keep this in mind, and follow suit if you want a 'normal' sounding progression. Or break the rule and be a bad-ass rebel. :ar_15s: That's always fun too.

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As for your e minor/b minor / a minor, the v (B minor in the key of e minor) is usually Major instead, as Burning Down has stated. However, don't forget that the Major (dominant) V(7) chord belongs to the Harmonic minor scale, and that the natural minor's v chord is normally minor.

I've been analyzing Bach chorales lately and have come across many chords I can't describe except as minor v chords. They are peculiar, but if Bach can do it, why not let them exist?

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As for these chords being in the key of G Major, that's correct too.

G major and e minor are relative key signatures. This means they have the same number of Sharps and Flats.

The G Major scale is: G A B C D E F# G
The e natural minor scale is: E F# G A B C D E

Notice how they both only have one sharp, on F.

Thus, you get the same chords from them:

G Major, A minor, B minor, C Major, D Major, e minor, f# diminished.

If you want to make e harmonic minor, you simply raise the 7th note in the scale (in this case, the D) by adding a sharp. Your e harmonic minor scale is then E F# G A B C D# E.

With these notes, you get the following chords instead (different chords from previous are bolded):

e minor, f# diminished, G Augmented, a minor, B Major, C Major, d# diminished.

These sets of chords are semi all related based on that key signature with just the lone F#.

You should be able to have some fun with these selections of chords and moving around through progressions. :)

Another question.

For example, if someone is playing an a minor chord and you want to play along, can you play only an a minor chord or are there any other chords in a that will work? Do you get what im saying? It might be hard to understand

Playing at the same time, in sync? Play the same chord - it's already harmonized and your ears will thank you.

Yes thats what I meant. I've just heard of some songs, like the Beatles "get back" for instance, where someone plays an A major and then someone else playing some sort of A7 at the same time.

Well, you can do that because it's the same chord. You're just adding the 7th to it.

Hello... I am not sure if I should ask this question in this thread.. :P

Does anybody know what is this type of guitar chords: D4_3, Bm4_3, A6_5?
I learnt from a professional that when you see a D4_3 you place your fingers like playing a normal D chord, but you also use your 4th finger placed on the 1st string, 3th fret (G note), and then you lift your 4th finger and you come back to the normal D chord.. I tried that and fits perfect with the song, but I don't understand what exactly the numbers 4_3 show... Can anyone help??

Those are inversions of a 7th chord, in your case, D7.

D7 = Root position, the D is the lowest note (the bass note).
D6/5 = 1st inversion. F# is in the bass.
D4/3 = 2nd inversion. A is in the bass.
D4/2 = 3rd inversion. C is in the bass.

These inversions apply to all types of 7th chords in every key.

G is not part of any D or D7 chord so I have no idea what this guy was telling you.

Definitely the right thread to post these types of questions and don't hesitate to ask more!

Ok.. Thanks.. And what about A and Bm? And how can I find the inversions by myself?

Basically, the same principle applies. Except that there is no 3rd inversion because they are not 7th chords. Constructing chord inversions can get a lot more complicated than that when you start notating them on staff paper, but for guitar you can keep it as simple as what I posted before.

Ok... Thanks a lot! :D

You're very welcome!

http://i50.tinypic.com/14jm8id.jpg

Here you can see the inverted seventh chords.

The numbers come from the intervals above the bottom note in the chord (and upon its inversion). The long forms are: 753, 653, 643, 642 - for "root position", "first inversion", "second inversion" and "third inversion", respectively.

From the diagram above, you can see where the numbers come from (count your lines and spaces to match up those intervals. You can do it! :P )

Anyway, the abbreviations for each are highlighted. So your 4-3 chord is just a second inversion chord. These inverted chords tell you only one thing though: what your lowest pitch is going to be.

So a root position has the ROOT on the bottom
A first inversion has the 3rd on the bottom
The 2nd inversion has the 5th on the bottom
And the 3rd inversion has the 7th on the bottom. (3rd inversion can be called "4-2" or just "2" in some sources)

Triads (chords with 3 notes) work the same way

Your root position then is 5-3, first is 6-3, and 2nd is 6-4.

The abbreviated versions are: (nothing), 6, and (still) 6-4.

I hope you can figure that out on your own. Try drawing it.

Probably open G - DGDGBD, or maybe even DADGAD. I see those the most, anyways.

Can someone list me out chords from most basic to advanced. I know all my major and minor chords. I'm guessing those are most basic? What would come next, 7 chords?

My friend will come up with a bassline and I try to put some guitar with it, I figure out the root notes and put chords with it, but I always just use basic major and minor chords. I feel like it kind of restricts creativity. I want to open up my chord vocabulary. Anyone have any advice?

I know some more advanced chords but not many. All the basic minor and major chords sound really good, I just want to expand.

I've been trying to come up with some unusual, or not so common chord progressions lately. Here's one, although I'm not sure if it's complete.

G major, A minor 11th, C add9 (only thing I know to call it. It's a C add9 minus the D note)x3

The next part starts the same (G, Am11, C add9), then it goes into B minor, B flat minor, A minor. Then loops back to the first part.

So, is it kind of unusual? I guess the only really unusual thing about it is that Bb minor doesn't belong in the key of G major.

From a theory standpoint, there most common harmonies (and therefor 'chords') are Dyads - two note sonorities.
These are kind of bland though, so I'm sure you won't mind if I skip over them

From there, you have in conceptual design (and they way they're taught) this order:

Traditional 'Simple' Triads
Major Triads (C E G)
Minor Triad (C Eb G)
Diminished Triad (C Eb Gb)
Augmented Triad (C E G#)

After that probably come the 7th chords -
Dominant 7th (most common) (C E G Bb)
Major 7th (C E G B)
Minor 7th (C Eb G Bb)
Diminished 7th (C Eb Gb Bbb) (aka. diminished add 6)
Half Diminished 7th (C Eb Gb Bb) (aka. minor 7 b5)

These can branch off into more complex sonorities called Extended Chords
These are your 9th, 11th, and 13th chords. Generally you can do whatever you want with the 9th, 11th, and 13th (C 13th b9 #11 would result in C E G Bb Db F# A), but there are some limits.
Two that I can think of right now are:
1. Something like C minor #9 which would get you C Eb G Bb D#. The Eb and D# are the same thing, so it doesn't make too much sense to double something with a different name. This one would sound more like C minor 7 with a 3rd on top. But then resolution of the D# would go up to E, where as the C minor 7's Eb would go down to D or something.
2. There are some schools of thought that state your 11 should always be #11. But if it's your music, do whatever you want. :) Just make it sound good and make sense to you.

Instead of extended chords you could go into other relatively common sonorities such as the augmented 6th chords. Italian, French, German (and Swiss, for those of you who are crazy like I am). Remember, b6 has to be your lowest pitch to pull these off 'legally'
Italian - 1, #4, b6 (C F# Ab) - goes to either V or I6-4
French - 1, #4, b6, 2 (C F# Ab D) - goes to a V or I6-4
German - 1, #4, b6, b3 (C F# Ab Eb) - Goes to a V only*
Swiss - 1, #4, b6, #2 (C F# Ab D#) - Goes to I6-4*

* - people lump the german and swiss into the same chord called just 'german'. This is fine, but I differentiate. Sorry if I offended anyone here. Personally, spelling counts for me and those chords.

After basic triads, sevenths, extended chords, and augmented 6ths, you could go into added or sussed chords

C6 - C E G A
C4 - C E F G
C2 - C D E G

Gsus6 - C E A (kinda like a minor here... hmm ;))
Gsus4 - C F G
Gsus2 - C D G

After that it's all functional chords, so context of the chord progression-
The augmented 6ths do this, in that they must be followed by a particular chord.

Neopolitan (or phrygian II chord) does this. It's a first-inversion (3rd on the bottom) of a Major flatted two chord. So in C major (or minor) it's Db F Ab, with F as your lowest pitch.

Then you could always do secondary dominants - V/vi going to a vi of course. That kind of thing.

Then if you're feeling even more spry, you can go into quartal chords and secundal chords -

Quartal:
Augmented - (doesn't exist... C F# B#) ((B# and C are the same))
Major - C F# B
Minor - C F B
Diminished - C F Bb

Secundal:
Augmented - C D E
Major - C D Eb
Minor - C Db Eb
Diminished - C Db Ebb

Then you can get even crazier here and go into making extended chords and (essentially) 7th chords for the quartal and secundal sonorities.

If you can compute all these different things in your head, you're ready to make rationalizations for nearly any kind of grouping of notes. I've personally made a system to explain any set of pitches (from the 12 tone scale) you can come up with :) But that's just me.


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You said
C add9 (only thing I know to call it. It's a C add9 minus the D note)x3

C add 9 is like... C E G D.... (also called C2). I think you meant to say "minus the B note". If you mean your chord is C E G D, then yes; add9 is fine.

And the only thing that's unusual here is that you're going from A to Bb to B. It's just a chromatic passing chord. it's not too strange, and will sound like you're putting a bridge linking the B minor the the A minor.

Cheers!

Thanks for the info, I didn't think it was really strange. I'm just trying to move on to less basic chords.


Do you have any tips on spicing up your chord progressions?

Very simple way is for filler.

You can do this by adding a pattern of each chord like so:

Take a I vi IV V

Now go vii*/ before each one each time you change:

I - [vii*/vi] - vi - [vii*/IV] - IV - [vii*/V] - V
This spices it up with a little dissonance flair here and there.

You can do this to a crazier degree:

Let's add a ii/ vi/ vii*/ before each of the main chords each

I - [ii/vi - vi/vi - vii*/vi] - vi - [ii/IV - vi/IV - vii*/IV] - IV - [ii/V - vi/V - vii*/V] - V - I

This could give you some very interesting (and legal:cool:) sounds.

Supplementing like this is very common and should be regular in your repertoire.

Another way to make your bass line more interesting is to substitute chords.

That flat 6 from the augmented 6th chords is a useful thing to go from a vi chord (or iv6-3 or ii6-4 for that matter) down to a V chord. If you go for example
iv 6-3 - Italian+6 - V - I

Your bass line would go: 6 b6 5 1, which is smooth as silk.

You can then supplement each one with extra pre-chords that would just redefine that basis. You can then start realizing things in a background and foreground.

Speaking of before, the foreground is maybe that craziness with the

I - [ii/vi - vi/vi - vii*/vi] - vi - [ii/IV - vi/IV - vii*/IV] - IV - [ii/V - vi/V - vii*/V] - V - I

While the real background (and overall picture) is simply I - vi - IV - V - I
That beautiful sense of complicated simplicity is magic.

I saw recently where someone took a tritone variation of the chord he was going to. Let's talk actual letters here. Something like I - IV - V - I in C major would be:

C E G - F A C - G B D - C E G

And he put in the tritones between, like this:

C E G - b d# f# - F A C - c# e# g# - G B D - f# a# c# - C E G

You can get interesting sounds this way.

Now, in reality, whatever works to you works to you. You can breathe whatever you want into life because you say so. It's your music. You're the overall sayer of what goes on in your music. If you like the way that the ii13#11b9 moving to a Fr+6 chord sounds, then by all means, go for it. Your imagination is all the 'spice' your chord progression needs.

Can someone identify these chords for me?

High e string: open (hammer on first fret-f note)
B string: first fret (c note)
G string: second fret (a note)

I guess it's just an A minor minus the e note on the d string, but what would that be called?

Next chord-
Now that i think about it, I guess it's just a C major chord without the c note on A string

Next chord-
High e string: open
B string: first fret (c note)
G string: open
D string: open
A string: second fret (b note)

You're at a loss for a few things; as in - what other strings are being played? Just these 3?

Here are the conjectures you can tie in. I'm going to assume all other strings to be open if used.

Your high E is either F or E (hammer on doesn't tell me which you want in the chord)

So your options for that first chord are (from low note to high note):

E A D A C e
X X X . . f

And therefor:

E-A-D-A-C-e = A minor add 4(11) / E
E-A-D-A-C-f = D minor 7 / E

E-A-x-A-C-e = A minor / E
E-A-x-A-C-f = F Major / E (F Major 7, 3rd inversion)

E-x-D-A-C-e = A minor add 4 / E
E-x-D-A-C-f = D minor 7 / E

E-x-x-A-C-e = A minor / E
E-x-x-A-C-f = F Major / E

x-A-D-A-C-e = A minor add 4(11)
x-A-D-A-C-f = D minor 7 / A

x-A-x-A-C-e = A minor
x-A-x-A-C-f = F Major / A

x-x-D-A-C-e = A minor / D
x-x-D-A-C-f = F Major / D

x-x-x-A-C-e = A minor
x-x-x-A-C-f = F Major


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That was easy enough.

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You could argue this is a CMajor9 (CΔ9) / B (or E, if you use your low string open) though it might be easier to call it a Cadd9 over B.

Groovy chord choices man.

On the first one, those are the only strings being played. And yes, the high E is an E note, and the hammer on is to F.

Then yeah. Just a minor. There's not really a way to differ this chord from 'open a minor (x02210)' or 'barred a minor (577555)'; they're all just a minor. The way you could notate this one then is just to write xxx210 or maybe xxx210(h1) for the hammer on.

About the first technique you address here, would those "filler" chords just be used as passing chords?

They can be used as either or. There's no right or wrong. If it sounds good to you, give it wings and let it fly.

Very true. All my best work comes to me on accident, pretty much. I'm never very successful when I try too hard.

If you try to make music that sounds like everyone else's, then you're going to wind up with music that sounds like everyone else's. 'Right' and 'wrong' are really "what we normally do" and "what we normally do NOT do". The more you delve into the unknown and nontraditional, the more you'll find your own unique voice and sound that will give you an identity different from the usual flock.

You can always find a parallel version of whatever you do to recreate it in another sense. Especially if you use numbers (I IV V) for labeling, you can move it to any key in any register and recreate it later. You can make up your own vocabulary in musical concepts - I to #IV (like C E G to F# A# C#[[see Petrushka Chord]]), which you can then move to another scale. This is only one example. You can do it with rhythmic figures, you can do it with chord progressions, you can do it with melodies, dynamics, timbre, combinations of these factors - anything. Then if you reuse it in your other compositions, you'll have your unique reoccurring sound that listeners will be able to identify as yours.

The logic behind your choices should still be there; but it doesn't have to make sense to the world; just to you. If you can find the path through your music where others would need a compass and road map, that's okay.