Music Banter - Bridge intonation

Music Banter (https://www.musicbanter.com/)

- Talk Instruments (https://www.musicbanter.com/talk-instruments/)

- - Bridge intonation (https://www.musicbanter.com/talk-instruments/33040-bridge-intonation.html)

Bridge intonation

yeah so i realized my high e was insanely off on higher fret positions
so i toned the rest of my strings and got them perfect for the most part, but when i got to my high e it was so flat on the 12th fret it registered on my tuner as a d# so i lowered the saddle to the end of the screw as far as i could get it towards the neck and it barely budged on my tuner. I have a mexican strat so idk if that helps all that much. any diagnosis, oh great guitar doctors?

Use a new, stretched string. I had a guitar that did this all the time and I could never get it sorted until one day I tried to intonate it just after I changed the strings.

If that doesnt work, try using a thicker high E and intonate it that way.

i've never done this myself so this is entirely speculation, but i'd think you would want to move the saddle closer to the bridge so that the tension is increased.

Nope. the tension would be the same when the string is in tune. His problem is that the length of the string is under the right tension, but the note is only right when open. The length of vibrating string when fretted is actually slightly too long, causing it to go flat. The further up the neck, the more out of tune it becomes.

Shorten the length of vibrating string, and not only will his open string needto be under less tension to be in tune, but all the tuning issues will be gone :)

in that case where he didn't notice a change after moving the saddle wouldn't it be possible that the saddle is just too low to do anything besides keep the string straight? might need to be raised ever so slightly to just create a stronger point of contact.

i have had these strings for about a year, and god knows how long they were on it in the store... that probably is the problem

thanks alot guys,

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheCaster (Post 518124)

i have had these strings for about a year, and god knows how long they were on it in the store... that probably is the problem

eeeewwwwwwwwwww..........

:p:

it's one thing to have really old strings. it's another thing to have really old strings lots of people have played (and sweated) on.

I change my strings at least once a month...you people who keep strings on forever are ****ing INSANE.

well nothing is was ever wrong with them before now... :'(

You'd be surprised man...I change the strings to keep them feeling fresh and easy to play. Old strings accumulate dirt and corrosion and as they stretch out over time they lose their elasticity.

The end result is you get a darker more muddy tone from them, it becomes harder to bend notes, and most importantly it just feels more difficult to play overall. Not to mention the fretboard ends up covered in dirt and sweat from the old strings....

Read this and you'll start to find out how important guitar and string changes and general maintenence is.

IBANEZ RULES Clean and Setup

holy **** you have no idea how helpful that is...

im kinda nervous about using steel wool to clean the neck though...

You don't have to do that bit, it does help but its not essential. If you do do it, mask off or otherwise cover the electronics on the body. Bits of steel wool in your pickups is very bad.

alright im a retard at this, when if i were to take out my pickups will the angle of my pickup when i put it back in change my tone?

Kinda, but the angle shouldn't change because they're on springs already....and plus for a basic setup you shouldn't need to do much more than setting the bridge height and action, give the fretboard a good ol clean to make sure everything is silky smooth, and if the frets are particularly worn down, they may need crowning by a guitar tech.

Other than that, make sure your board is oiled so the wood is nourished, and keep your strings new. The guy in the link uses Bore Oil, but I prefer to use Fret Doctor (Google it, this stuff is amazing. Its cheap, and you literally need one drop of it on each fret, work it in with a q tip and you're good)

Must agree here!

Fresh strings make a big difference - didn`t you notice any rusting? Loss of shine on them?

Just adding to the advice already posted, a good guitar shop will usually have a tech who will do all the bridge, intonation adjustments, lose the fret buzz etc etc. - Its not expensive.

Great if you can learn to do it all yourself, but i reckon its easier to watch and learn than fiddle alone....:yikes:
Thats a path i havent gone down yet, there are so many variables to consider, pickup height, bridge, nut, frets, tuning keys, blah, blah....

Good luck.

i still think it comes down to personal preference.

i've had the same strings on my bass for 5 years now and i have NO plans to change them unless they pop. i have no idea when the last time i changed the strings on my strat either. mind you i 'like' dark muddy tone.

but i will concede that new strings sound WAY brighter and clearer than old ones. if i were to change strings on my strat it would only be the top 3 unwound ones. i really like the sound of fresh high strings but i find new wound strings sound too bright and tinny for me.

as for the steel wool deal. use a fine grain and don't rub too hard, it's just to clean out the sweat and gunk from around the frets. you're not trying to clean off the rust from an engine block.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mr dave (Post 519317)

Bass strings last a helluva lot longer than guitar strings anyway...

And personally for me its less of a tone thing than a feel thing, to an extent. I love the tone AND feel of new strings, but i despise old strings gritty feel and how difficult they are to play.

I hate to say this but measure your guitar neck length, find the scales online. And see if yours was built off scale even slightly.
Also hows your hearing? maybe your adjusting it off key?
Also If you trust string tuners they are never perfect.
Learn to adjust your sound of the strings by ear.
Also if your frets are higher than normal around the 12th fret,cheaper guitars are built this way many times,companies figure your never going to play this high anyways.......but...if your frets are too high then your string can be off tune when you press down on the 12th fret. did you know that even on the best guitars, the harder you press down on a string on the fret the more you warp the sound?
try press your low bass E string at the 3rd fret as you would normally, then press it as hard down as you can, the sound will wrap some, this is most noticable on heavier strings, but it happens also on higher strings. If this is what is happening have some one at a shop file down the last fret or 2 . but don't do it yourself. I have been repairing my own guitars for years and building guitars. This is a common problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockGuitar101 (Post 524125)

You have no idea what you're talking about. I pity anyone who takes anything to you to be set up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre (Post 524161)

You have no idea what you're talking about. I pity anyone who takes anything to you to be set up.

I would say you're greatly missleading people here.
You want everyone to think you're a mr know it all.
If they want to fall for that so be it.
But if the frets on cheap guitars are offset, it will cause the guitar to play out of tonation plain and simple. Guitar necks get miscut even when top CNC digital equipment is used time, and companies try and pull a fast one by sneaking it by. They don't want to loose a sale and the cost of the guitar. It happens all the time.
It's real easy for frets to be too high, or miscut during production. I guess you understand very little about the building of modern guitars my friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockGuitar101 (Post 524274)

You just told someone to tune their guitars intonation entirely by ear. Your opinions from that point on were invalid to me because nobody has hearing that perfect, even those with perfect pitch.

As for 'the building of modern guitars' and so on, I probably have forgotten more about the various differences between guitars, both handbuilt and CNC cut, by many different processes than you have ever known. Not that that had ANYTHING to do with intonation AT THE BRIDGE anyway. From Carvins fully CNC fret presses, the various different methods of radiusing a fretboard or even compount radiusing. The use of Hide glues, all manner of guitar hardware from boutique pickups, dimarzio patents, scatterwinding active preamps midi systems peizo systems the effects of chambering and different body woods, exotic instruments and even crazy creations like the Tueffel Birdfish. I have done my research and know what I am talking about. When I do not know, I will happily discuss and make conjecture but I will NEVER say I know what I do not.

----------------
Now playing: Porcupine Tree - The Sound Of Muzak
via FoxyTunes

Quote:

Originally Posted by RockGuitar101 (Post 524125)

I hate to say this but measure your guitar neck length, find the scales online. And see if yours was built off scale even slightly.The liklihood of this happening is in the thousands or even millions to one. I have only ever heard of two seperate incidents of misbuilt necks or misplaced frets in my life, and thats from the internet at large, in total.

Quote:

Also hows your hearing? maybe your adjusting it off key?
Off key? Just so you know, off key refers to playing a group of unrelated notes over another group of notes, as opposed to what is traditional, which is to play related notes and achieve a pleasing sound. While off key can be used to great effect, it will still be in tune in its own scale. Playing a Gb major scale over a piece in G major would be out of key. However the notes of the Gb Major would still be exactly the same pitches. Key is the RELATIONSHIPS between notes that create musical context.

Quote:

Also If you trust string tuners they are never perfect.No, they aren't. They ARE however much more accurate than the human ear, with good units being able to give tuning accuracy to within fractions of a cent.

On the other hand, its a strage fact that on any plucked instrument, the string is sharp momentarily after being plucked. Once the note settles into normal vibration is when the tuner will be accurate. pluck, let settle, tune. Always tune ascending not descending, to avoid binding of the string on the capstan or nut.

Quote:

Learn to adjust your sound of the strings by ear.Assuming you're still even halfway talking about intonation by this point, this is flat stupid. The average human ear of even a well trained musicians ear cannot detect a pitch change or variance small enough to confirm accurate intonation on the level of any half decent electronic tuners.

Quote:

Also if your frets are higher than normal around the 12th fret,cheaper guitars are built this way many times,companies figure your never going to play this high anyways.......but...if your frets are too high then your string can be off tune when you press down on the 12th fret. did you know that even on the best guitars, the harder you press down on a string on the fret the more you warp the sound?The height of the fret wouldn't have this effect, the position of the fret would. Also, the action of the guitar has more effect on this. As you bring the string down from its neutral position it stretchs and thus pitch becomes higher. a lower action will help with this. And while you can technically change the pitch of a note by pressing harder, its more likely its being pulled to one side. This can be solved very simply by playing with a lighter touch, which is something most if not all skilled musicians are easily capable of, because even with jumbo frets it takes a bit of pressure to do that that isn't encountered in standard playing situations. Scalloped frets do make it easier, but very few guitars have scallops and even fewer players who have scalloped frets play with a hard touch. Case in point? Yngwie malmsteen.

Quote:

try press your low bass E string at the 3rd fret as you would normally, then press it as hard down as you can, the sound will wrap some, this is most noticable on heavier strings, but it happens also on higher strings. If this is what is happening have some one at a shop file down the last fret or 2 . but don't do it yourself.Again, go look up scalloping. According to your ****ed up theory, the way scalloping works would make every guitar on earth unplayably out of tune. Obviously, this is not the case, as Yngwie, Ritchie blackmore, and many others will attest. Also, if his intonation is out because his guitar needs fretwork, then it would be out due to the flat crown of the fret, after being worn down from its rounded shape, is very slightly changing the point of vibration. A fret crown and setup will solve this but frankly I have never seen a guitar in my LIFE with frets worn down to the point of a noticable difference in intonation.

Quote:

I have been repairing my own guitars for years and building guitars.And I hope to god they've only gone to you, and you never play in public, because if this is your understanding of guitar setups and technology, then it must sound terrible. Oh, and by the way, buying a prebuilt set of parts and building it is not 'building a guitar'. A monkey could do it blindfolded and set it up tolerably with not much more effort.

Quote:

This is a common problem.Not the way you've described it it isnt.

As I said before. I believe that you, RockGuitar101, are an absolute fool who has not even the faintest clue of what you're talking about. Its either that or you're a surprisingly malicious troll, and frankly whichever it is you should be banned for spamming the forum with incorrect and potentially harmful information.
----------------
Now playing: Porcupine Tree - The Sound Of Muzak
via FoxyTunes

*looks at above post*

you just raped his metaphorical ass with the barrel of a shotgun

I must admit I was kind of hoping for him to give me some kind of smartass reply, so i looked up his posts. He's logged in at least twice since I posted that...but for some reason he hasn't elected to show us exactly how wrong I am because he apparently knows everything.

I wonder why?

i think RG101 was more of a troll / spammer. he was posting like mad on his first day (all baseless generalizations and BS) until one of the mods removed the link from his sig, i wouldn't hold my breath for a reply.

Well he's made about 40 or so posts since you posted that...he's just avoiding the verbal schooling I gave him here if anything.

fair enough. although it seems he's only focusing on his power trip thread that has someone generated a bunch of money for him.