mr dave

HOT DAMN i want that AR500.

am i going to get in crap for derailing this thread a bit?

i'm curious about the early 70s ibanez guitars. pre-lawsuit. back when they were making clones of fenders and gibsons. i spotted a jazzmaster knockoff a while back under the name 'mansfield' but was able to learn that it was likely produced by ibanez then rebranded for sale in canada. anyone have any more info on this? GB? is $200 a deal for a knockoff of a knockoff?

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GuitarBizarre

I know a lot about the tech specs of ibanez guitars, but i gotta admit collectors items and even some of their more vintage parts aren't my specialty. I suggest asking on Jemsite to be honest.

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mr dave

holy quick reply haha. i'm just a sucker for junky old guitars, especially if i can find them cheap. one of these days i'll start a thread when i get in the market for another new one (been about 2 years so i'm due)

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GuitarBizarre

To get back onto topic for a moment, threadstarter and anyone who is interested in buying a gibson, READ THIS.

Dinosaur Rock Guitar

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mr dave

that's a good article but i really think this quote by the interviewer says it all


they also reinforce a point i've made in any 'help me buy a guitar thread'. go to the store - IGNORE THE NAME ON THE HEADSTOCK - and try everything until you find something that feels right to your hands and ears. if i had a $1 for every time i've posted something similar i'd have my own vintage LP by now hehe

i really don't think the issue is specific to gibson guitars either. the guys in the interview were obvious dyed in the wool classic-rock heads. which is fine. they knew what they were looking for in terms of tone. it's a common mistake a lot of novices make, they go for the name expecting it to have quality on par with their influences, which is rarely the case.

i also really like the idea of trying out the guitar acoustically before plugging it in. with enough pedals you can make a shoelace strung over a cardboard box with a bottle cap pickup fart out the riff to smoke on the water and make it sound right, but it's hardly a good instrument.

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GuitarBizarre

I've just had a conversation with a friend that enlightened me to a few things I didn't actually know also, so heres the log for you:

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mr dave

you didn't know necks were held to the body by wood as thick as a finger and that les pauls were uncomfortable? no offense but i'm starting to think you haven't actually played many guitars besides a few pawn shop specials and a high end ibanez.

i've also never heard of anyone having their headstock snap off who didn't abuse their instrument prior to having it break.

the plastic tuning pegs are disappointing but does it really make a huge difference as to what material you're twisting so long as the tuning machines rotate and pull the string?

if you're buddy thinks the SG neckdives he'll never EVER want to try my 5 string bass hehehe

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GuitarBizarre

No, if you look, its me saying that les pauls are uncomfortable. The neck joint was news to me, but i can't claim to know everything and I'll admit that set necks were never something I spent a lot of time thinking about. I'm much more familiar with different bolt on systems and neckthrough construction.

As for this guitar, it was owned by a personal friend who keeps very good care of his instruments and never gigged heavily or transported that guitar around without its hardcase.

As for the plastic yes it does since the plastic strips and the peg then doesnt rotate, I've seen it happen on a couple of different SGs.

As for the neckdives, I'll admit that my viper does so also, but the SG is one of the worst yet most popular guitar designs despite that fact.

Also, as stated above, the only reason gibson get away with this is their name. Gibson buyers are slowly turning into a mindset where things like this are to be 'expected' on thousand dollar plus purchases. Hell, as mentioned, Jimmy Page hates his own signature model that Gibson charged tens of thousands for.

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mr dave

sorry, i get confused when reading chat logs like that. i don't know why IM progs don't auto bold the users when saving a chat log.

back to the issue at hand, i still don't think it's specific to gibson or their buyers. when you can walk out of high school and into a call center for $12-$15 an hour to start, $1000 isn't 'that' big of a deal. yes, it's still serious cash, but consider how everything else in our modern economy has increased in price. LPs have been about $1000-3000 for as long as i can remember and i've been playing since 1993. the cost of manufacturing and distribution HAS gone up, and drastically in the last few years. i figure the distribution is what's really hurting them more than anything else, the increase in oil prices is going to increase the costs of obtaining materials, increase the base wage their employees will work for, and increase the cost of shipping the guitars for sale. the company has to turn a profit somehow, if the market is willing to accept it then the onus is on the consumer to determine whether or not the product is worthwhile to them.

i hate saying it but $1000 is what i consider the line where mid range starts to taper off and you start to see where high end begins.

i also wouldn't call the SG a popular design, aside from ESP's viper i don't ever recall seeing that design used by any other manufacturer.

like the 2 guys in that interview said, if you want a great guitar you're going to have to pay the price and wait for the luthier to do his work.

i have to ask it again though, WHY did your friend keep that explorer?

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GuitarBizarre

He didn't...

And not to be picky, but Americans have a much more rosy view of that kind of money on a guitar. Over here in the UK its twice as much with VAT added on top, more often than not, and when guitars for less than a 5th of the price are nearly or completely flawless, you'd think it'd be a lot less common than Gibson make it.

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