Lionel Messi
 

Does he need a thread? IMO yes. In this thread we worship him.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OASaJVMg__I

Get the tissues out lads.

https://i.makeagif.com/media/5-06-2015/uo_msM.gif


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxQeAYOh_SU

"I used to watch porn, now I watch Messi."

Bump this thread when he leads Argentina to a World Cup championship.

i think it's coming. whether he's a part of it or not, they have an amazing set of attackers and once they can develop a stronger defensive core they'll be on their way.

dybala, messi, higuian, icardi, aguero. not sure how a country can groom so many world class goal scorers and not have a few talented defenders. mad ting.

There is a squad full of players involved you know. The reason this didn't happen three years ago is because of Higuain, Di Maria & Lavezzi.

Can we agree that you have to win it all before people start talking about better than Pele?

I don't know **** about soccer anyway.

It's a team sport. Honours are in part down to luck.

Pele wouldn't make a top 10.

roonster > messi

You're trolling!

:D

There used to be some good discussions on here about Rooney.

I remember at the last World Cup, we were losing 2-1 to Italy and late in the second half England got a corner, Rooney took it and, well...

http://cdn.fansided.com/gif/lulz-5.gif

He might scrape into a top 20 or something.

i'll always love wayner because he's been a pivotal part of the club ever since i've been a fan, but he's a total goofball and i can't think of another big name player who manages to embarrass himself on the pitch that much.

the last few seasons have been especially hard to watch because the great performances are becoming few and far between and the bad ones are rather consistent.

Post Euros (2004), many (myself included) believed he would go on to be one of the all time greats. He was arguably better than Messi and Cristiano at the time :D

Fair enough Messi is Messi but if he had the same work ethic as Cristiano who knows where he would be now.

Pele is definitely Top 5. Until a new era emerges with a player or two as good as Messi/C. Ron, it's hard to argue that anybody who has been playing in between really deserves a spot ahead of Pele.

Maradona and Cruyff are probably the fourth and fifth placed players, who would be kicked out before Pele imo.

Messi
C. Ron
Pele
Maradona
Cruyff

How come Germany has so much success but not so many super famous names?

They do have famous names but they don't usually produce the type of players that stand out aesthetically. It takes a particular vibe to cross beyond simply respect in terms of ability and being remembered as a uniquely brilliant player. Pele wouldn't be as famous or looked upon as such a great player if the majority of his ability was to score tap ins. He was so much more, and as if transported from the future.

Gerd Muller is one of the top scoring strikers of all time, but the guy scored ugly goals and wasn't super pleasing on the eye - compared to the Brazilian Ronaldo for example.

Or Matthaus. An awesome midfielder who could do it all, but just didn't have the generation defining ability of Cryuff or Zidane.

The only one I ever knew was Schumacher.

great post. very accurate as well.

What arguments are there for Pele? Three World Cups and 1,000 goals aren't really convincing. You should look into who he scored all his goals against.

I would have Romario, Ronaldo, Puskas, Eusebio, Cryuff at least before Pele.

I thought winning the World Cup was a big deal and ****. Nevermind.

It is. But it's a team honour not an individual one.

He was part of a team that won three, but he was injured for their second win (that shows you how good Brazil were) and wasn't really the star player in either of the other two.

i suppose I agree with Monkey's stance on the world cup. Giggsy has won the most PL titles (13) with Scholes at 11 and Neville next with 8. I don't think any of the three of them would be in the top 5 players to play in league.

Obviously league and national honours are different, but a team award is still a team award at the end of the day. I can't say where I would rank Pele because I don't think it makes much sense to try and place a player you've never actually seen play a game. If you base all of your opinions off of highlights and honours who knows who you could claim to be one of the greats.

Na some common sense has to be involved obviously. Maradona definitely better than Pele, top 3 for ability. Proven in multiple leagues and internationally, no doubts about him whatsoever, turned average sides into winners.

sure but for me to say Messi is better than Pele, as an example, without having seen Pele play is a little silly. is it not? unless we're basing players entirely off of stats and honours.

No because the game has advanced massively since then. Players now are generally going to be much better than the icons of the past.

Our top league goalscorer of all time is Harry Hampton, does anyone actually believe a player who retired almost 100 years ago is superior to Jonathan Kodjia?

who cares cause theyre both inferior to Christian Benteke.

:cool::clap:

Seriously look up some long form Pele videos. He was doing things that were out of this world at the time. He played basically as an attacking midfielder and scored more goals than the best players of his era.

He even did the Cruyff turn before the man himself.

I went to soccer camp as a kid and they showed us Pele videos on a projector. I left that camp convinced he was the greatest athlete ever and I've never seen anything that made me change my mind.

I don't know why I'm posting in this thread though. I don't know **** about soccer. Those Messi videos don't make my balls tingle. I guess I don't get the nuances. Those Pele clips were like he would nutmeg three defenders and then plop it in the goal. I get the game was different, the defenders were different- but you know, my nuts just aren't tingling. Actually, the Ronaldo who played with Ronaldinho in the Korea/Japan World Cup made my nuts tingle. Zidane? No, nut tingle. Maybe you gotta be Brazilian to tingle my nuts.

well if we're going for flashiness ronaldo is your man

I'm American. It's not like I'm going to appreciate a good pass and an almost goal.

I've seen him. He was amazing. There have been plenty of better players though.

And the number of goals he scored is questionable as well.

tbh I don't really know how you can see Messi in full flight and not be amazed by him. That dribble he did vs Espanyol earlier this season was as if he was dancing on water. His acceleration, balance, touch and change of direction is insane he looks levels ahead of everyone else on the pitch?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BVRlYDkaEM

:confused:

Did they call offsides that play?

Yeah they did.

nuts = tingled



you can skip like 1:15 in.

fox in the box. i don't care where he ranks in terms of all-time players, he's unanimously one of the most fun to watch.

Like I only really know American sports. I started to name drop American athletes but I don't want to get into all that on your thread. But with the sports I do know, when you start talking GOAT... somehow Messi has to have a presence that doesn't allow that play to not count. The striker (?) he passes to would not dare be offsides while playing on the same team as Messi. He'd rather die. To be the GOAT everything has to be in place and then some.

Aren't there rules against "high kicks"? Isn't that some kind of dangerous play? Or is it anything goes as long as you make contact with the ball? I didn't know they were allowed to go Bruce Lee on the field like that.

Left to the ref's discretion but should be outlawed imo. High boot (above knee level) outside the box usually results in a red but guys can fly kick at head height in the box and get away with it.

Somebody will get a boot in the head from a bicycle kick and they'll end up banning it imo.

it's allowed so long as it looks cool

I wish the NBA had that attitude. Maybe it would become watchable again.

Regarding Pele, you have to consider the time period. It's kinda like looking at Jimi Hendrix and saying he wasn't as talented as a lot of current day guitarists because they could probably replicate his shit with their eyes closed.

I'd look at Pele as a genius breakthrough in technology. He was the "invention of the wheel" of football. Sure, he was surrounded by great players but he stood out amongst them for a reason. He was a physical beast at a time when footballers didn't really take it that seriously.

He sparked that evolution. And I can't see any reason why - had he been born in the current era - he wouldn't be just as amazing with all of the advances we have made in the sport.

Put Messi in a time when the ball was heavy as fuck and barely even round, I am sure his dribbles would be comparatively underwhelming. His curled finishes would be minimal. It's about context. That's why it's probably best to go by generation rather than comparing Messi footage to Pele footage as if they were under the same circumstances.

Cristiano Ronaldo and Messi both crack the Top 5 for be because they are simply too good not to be in there.