The English Football Thread

[Nurse Duckett]

I had a quick look at the Wiki list, it doesn't help. To get a realistic view on English football you'd have to get rid of all the statistics from the last 15 years, their all tarnished by Sky money and therefore don't count.

The biggest two clubs in England are Manchester United and Liverpool, no other English clubs are in their league. Liverpool are more respected in Europe. There's a long list of other English clubs that I would consider big clubs, in no particular order - Arsenal, Villa, Spurs, Everton, Man City, Newcastle, Sunderland, Leeds, Sheff Wed, West Ham and I'll include Chelsea but they're only a temporary addition. I might have missed few.


Define buying a team, every team that has won the Prem in the last 15 years was a bought team, none of them were built from scratch, they were all bought and paid for by Sky TV money. All watched by the fickle and fashion concious middle classes who'll desert the game as soon as its not a fashion statement anymore.

[Cuthbert]

Originally Posted by Nurse Duckett

Define buying a team, every team that has won the Prem in the last 15 years was a bought team, none of them were built from scratch, they were all bought and paid for by Sky TV money. All watched by the fickle and fashion concious middle classes who'll desert the game as soon as its not a fashion statement anymore.

All the teams in the division get roughly equal amounts of Sky money though so I don't see how that means the teams that have won the league were bought teams (Chelsea & City aside) as they're competing against each other. It's not like in Spain where 50% goes to Madrid and Barça and the other 50% is shared among the other 18 teams.

Can't really see how this is a criticism tbh, that's how football works. With success comes rewards, it's like saying you shouldn't get prize money for winning the league (which you then use to buy players.)

Seems like it's mostly a dig at United tbh lol as they've dominated the PL era. They've got their faults as a club but buying titles isn't one of them.

[Nurse Duckett]

Originally Posted by Fluffy Kittens

All the teams in the division get roughly equal amounts of Sky money though so I don't see how that means the teams that have won the league were bought teams (Chelsea & City aside) as they're competing against each other. It's not like in Spain where 50% goes to Madrid and Barça and the other 50% is shared among the other 18 teams.

Can't really see how this is a criticism tbh, that's how football works. With success comes rewards, it's like saying you shouldn't get prize money for winning the league (which you then use to buy players.)

Seems like it's mostly a dig at United tbh lol as they've dominated the PL era. They've got their faults as a club but buying titles isn't one of them.

What if there was no Sky prize money, what if your income as a club depended on how big your gates were. Thats when managers really earned their money, they built teams, they didn't go and spend 10s of millions of pounds every year buying players that had won the world cup etc etc. One day it'll be that way again, then we'll see how big and great the chelseas of this world are wont we.

Your reputation as a club wasn't put in place by TV presenters it was put in place by your results.

How much did the European Cup winning Villa squad cost?

What are the chances of Nottingham Forest getting promotion to the Prem this season and then winning the Prem next season and then winning the European champions League the following two seasons?

How much did Liverpool spend in the 60s and 70s and 80s when they were building their reputation? They had two world class managers that built that club from being Evertons poor relation into what LFC is today.

Football isn't about money, its about people and that's the bit that Sky and its army of arm chair fans don't understand.

They can get rid of Sky and all the European competitions and I'd be as happy as a pig in shiit, I don't know a football supporter that knows what he/she's talking about that wouldn't.

No it wasn't a dig at Manchester United, they've proved themselves as a football club too many times over the last 140 or so years to be called cheque book club. Fergie was a cheque book manager but so was every other successful manager in his era of management, and Man United were already a rich club before the Sky money arrived, so he had a slight head start didn't he. He's over rated, Busby was 20 times the manager Ferguson was.

The best three British managers of my living memory have been Bill Shankly, Don Revie and Brian Clough.

Its always difficult to try and explain the difference between football now and football before Sky took it over, they either don't understand because they didn't witness it, or they don't want to understand.

The Premier League is an embarrassment to English football. The three professional leagues below it are far more entertaining and far more competitive and the fans are a million miles better than Prem fans, Prem fans are dull. If Leeds United were in the Prem this season 80% of the Prem fans would go home crying ( in their Range Rover ) and wouldn't be able to put into words what they'd just seen and heard, the other 20% would love it because they'd seen it before and they've missed it sooo much. The Prem needs Leeds United more than Leeds United need the Prem, best fans on planet earth, we've just taken 5,000 to Slovenia to watch us do our pre season training, 95% of Prem clubs don't take that many fans to an away game that's less than 30 miles from where they live. ****ing light weight Prem wankers.

Marching on together.

[Cuthbert]

Originally Posted by Goofle11

Suarez plays for Liverpool mate. Arsenal are a far better/bigger club than Liverpool.

Good one.

Originally Posted by Nurse Duckett

What if there was no Sky prize money, what if your income as a club depended on how big your gates were. Thats when managers really earned their money, they built teams, they didn't go and spend 10s of millions of pounds every year buying players that had won the world cup etc etc. One day it'll be that way again, then we'll see how big and great the chelseas of this world are wont we.

But that's not the case, the fact is if you're playing in the Premier League you get extra money because the matches are televised. You earned it by securing PL status. There is an element of achievement behind the money, it's not the same as City and Chelsea who had billions quite literally handed to them. They didn't achieve that.

Your reputation as a club wasn't put in place by TV presenters it was put in place by your results.

I don't disagree with this. But with better results come better marketing opportunities, better sponsorships and so on.

How much did the European Cup winning Villa squad cost?

Not sure but wouldn't have been much. Cowans (star player) came through as an apprentice and the record signing, Peter Withe, was signed for 500,000. Bremner cost 275,000.

What are the chances of Nottingham Forest getting promotion to the Prem this season and then winning the Prem next season and then winning the European champions League the following two seasons?

The game's changed now though. Madrid won it 5 times on the trot when it started. Also Norwich got back to back promotions and are now an established Premier League team, Swansea are another good example too, they've came up through the leagues and won a major honour last season so it can happen but yeah it is harder now.

How much did Liverpool spend in the 60s and 70s and 80s when they were building their reputation? They had two world class managers that built that club from being Evertons poor relation into what LFC is today.

Fair point but 440k British record on Kenny Dalglish.

Football isn't about money, its about people and that's the bit that Sky and its army of arm chair fans don't understand.

Another fair point.

They can get rid of Sky and all the European competitions and I'd be as happy as a pig in shiit, I don't know a football supporter that knows what he/she's talking about that wouldn't.

Sky yes but not European competitions. If anything they should change the format of the Champions League so award places to league winners only with 2nd place having to qualify.

No it wasn't a dig at Manchester United, they've proved themselves as a football club too many times over the last 140 or so years to be called cheque book club. Fergie was a cheque book manager but so was every other successful manager in his era of management, and Man United were already a rich club before the Sky money arrived, so he had a slight head start didn't he. He's over rated, Busby was 20 times the manager Ferguson was.

Not really, if it was that easy why could nobody before him since Busby win the league with United? And you can't ignore what he achieved at Aberdeen. Broke the Old Firm dominance in Scotland and won them two European trophies, beating Real Madrid. With Aberdeen ffs

Ferguson completely changed the infrastructure of Man. United from the players to the tea ladies, stamped out the drinking culture and brought through youth. How many people would have got rid of Kanchelskis, Ince and Hughes (key players) after they'd won the league the previous year?

The best three British managers of my living memory have been Bill Shankly, Don Revie and Brian Clough.

Shankly is one, Ferguson is one, Clough probably is the other too but I'm not too bothered to argue either way. Jock Stein > Revie though. Come at me.

Its always difficult to try and explain the difference between football now and football before Sky took it over, they either don't understand because they didn't witness it, or they don't want to understand.

It has got worse but like I said, you've got to move with the times. When football started it wasn't even professional, the players played for free.

The Premier League is an embarrassment to English football. The three professional leagues below it are far more entertaining and far more competitive and the fans are a million miles better than Prem fans, Prem fans are dull. If Leeds United were in the Prem this season 80% of the Prem fans would go home crying ( in their Range Rover ) and wouldn't be able to put into words what they'd just seen and heard, the other 20% would love it because they'd seen it before and they've missed it sooo much. The Prem needs Leeds United more than Leeds United need the Prem, best fans on planet earth, we've just taken 5,000 to Slovenia to watch us do our pre season training, 95% of Prem clubs don't take that many fans to an away game that's less than 30 miles from where they live. ****ing light weight Prem wankers.

I know a QPR fan who says this but I think he's talking out of his arse tbh. The Premier League has it's faults but it's a great league.

& Man. United & Liverpool travel in big numbers.

No fans are decent at home in this country anymore though.