The English Football Thread

Mojo · 03-29-2014, 07:31 AM

10 months or so without a trophy and they have fans going to the expense of hiring a plane to carry a banner in order to voice their displeasure at his lack of immediate success?

Even after 40 years of **** all, I'd be absolutely embarrassed if any fans did something like that at my club. Given the boos that met it around Old Trafford, I'd say there are plenty of United fans that feel that way.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 03-29-2014, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo

10 months or so without a trophy and they have fans going to the expense of hiring a plane to carry a banner in order to voice their displeasure at his lack of immediate success?

That's not what it's down to mate. If you were the manager of Tesco and the owners saw such a spectacular decline in success, would you keep your job? It's a black & white viewpoint to assume it's just because of a lack of immediate success. They expected a shit season. He's squandered £70m in funds already, turned winners into losers and consistently makes bizarre, defeatist comments (latest one was saying even Ferguson wouldn't have done better than he has this season).

If he isn't good enough, then they have a right to call him out, they shouldn't have to wait three years until he's done even further damage to do something if it's clear he's the wrong choice.

Except they aren't allowed to do this because there is a heavy security presence around that banner so they can't take it down. If anyone takes a banner in that they don't like i.e. Moyes Out, they'll be kicked out and banned for life, so what do they do? They want their voices heard.

Everyone and his dog knows Moyes is not the man, it's actually at the point now everyone who doesn't support them wants him to stay

. The only reason it's come to this is because they weren't allowed to take down a banner that should never have gone up in the first place (and was paid for by the club, not the fans).

Quote:

Even after 40 years of **** all, I'd be absolutely embarrassed if any fans did something like that at my club. Given the boos that met it around Old Trafford, I'd say there are plenty of United fans that feel that way.

The attendance at OT shouldn't be an indication of anything, they are brain dead Glazer stooges. I'm lurking on RI (forum that did this) now, they are mostly lifelong Mancs, not out of towners and daytrippers, it's not down to glory hunting or a lack of instant success, they are justified. Applauding Moyes on is just blind loyalty.

**Goofle** · 03-29-2014, 07:50 AM

Fergie picked Moyes to solidify his legacy. Lets imagine they got a proper manager like Wenger or Pep and they instantly won the title and played better football in the process, people would question the greatness of Fergie.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 03-29-2014, 07:53 AM

Also to add to my post, the United fans most against that plane, are overseas based ones who've never been to a match and are desperate to prove their 'top fan' credentials, showing everyone how much they're going to back an obvious failure purely because they've probably had stick all their lives about supporting that team and living in the US or whatever.

Co-sign Goofle.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 03-29-2014, 08:11 AM

Benteke is having such a bad game.

**** me

Mojo · 03-29-2014, 08:43 AM

The club have two choices, to either back Moyes or fire him. If they are gonna back him, then why would they take the banner down? Also, Moyes not be the fans chosen one, but he is the chosen successor to SAF. It is accurate.

I'm not claiming United fans should be happy. I'm not claiming this is a successful season. I'm saying that, in my opinion, the elaborate way in which they have chosen to protest is beyond pathetic and way, way over the top.

Now, I wouldn't agree with banning fans for life for taking anti-Moyes banners with them. OK, that's going too far on the part of the club. I just don't think renting a plane to fly it over the stadium is a natural progression or reasonable reaction in terms of getting their voices heard. It would embarrass me, if I was a United fan.

I'm also not claiming that Moyes is doing a great job, although I am stating my belief that he's taken more criticism than is justifiable. They have turned in some very poor performances this season, some of them have rightly prompted debate around his tactics and others United have dominated from start to finish, created an abundance of chances to win the game, never looked in any danger of either conceding and/or losing, and yet still Moyes takes it in the neck for presumably not being able to put it in the net himself. Something SAF wouldn't have any control over either.

He has made some questionable statements to the press, I agree, and he has made some decisions I fail to find much logic in. I think when United are in a slump he often looks as though he is in way over his head and I wonder if he is really strong enough to avoid cracking under the pressure. So is he the right man for the job? I obviously wonder if he is, but after less than a full season I'm not gonna claim to be able to know for sure.

I also think the attendance at OT is relevant. If you wanna talk "real", local, lifelong United fans, then you're talking about a lot of season ticket holders, right? All of whom should be at OT today, and there was clearly, audibly, boos around the ground when they flew the plane over. Unless this protest was extended to not attending today, but that isn't gonna help me believe in their credentials as "real" fans.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 03-29-2014, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mojo

The club have two choices, to either back Moyes or fire him. If they are gonna back him, then why would they take the banner down? Also, Moyes not be the fans chosen one, but he is the chosen successor to SAF. It is accurate.

That sort of adulation should be reserved for people who have actually achieved something. It's an embarrassing banner paid for and sanctioned by SEF with the club's money and the fans have every right to tear it down. It's pathetic that the fans aren't being allowed to put their own banners up and they're all being chosen by the club.

Quote:

I'm not claiming United fans should be happy. I'm not claiming this is a successful season. I'm saying that, in my opinion, the elaborate way in which they have chosen to protest is beyond pathetic and way, way over the top.

Let's say it's OTT, what other choice do they have? If they try and start a Moyes Out chant, Percy from Surrey will boo and back Moyes, just because Ferguson told them to.

Quote:

I also think the attendance at OT is relevant. If you wanna talk "real", local, lifelong United fans, then you're talking about a lot of season ticket holders, right? All of whom should be at OT today, and there was clearly, audibly, boos around the ground when they flew the plane over. Unless this protest was extended to not attending today, but that isn't gonna help me believe in their credentials as "real" fans.

Many of them boycotted in 2005. These are mostly the real lot - F.C. United of Manchester - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Quote:

Most F.C. United supporters still support Manchester United and many were previously season ticket holders at Old Trafford.

Then you have those who don't follow FCUM and just don't go any more as a matter of principle. Obviously some will still go but the make up of OT is pathetic, wouldn't use them as a yardstick for what Man. United fans think. I don't take them seriously at all.

Mojo · 03-29-2014, 09:21 AM

I see where you're coming from with the banner. It's a logical point of view. However I'm looking at it from the point of view that it's the clubs decision who succeeds SAF, they have the bottom line, they take the responsibility. They have put it up and backed their decision and backed their manager, and now they aren't gonna back down on that. You could argue they shouldn't back down. Sure the fans don't have to like it, but I don't think their reaction today was a helpful one that leaves them looking particularly graceful or dignified. I don't think it's gonna achieve anything either. The board have eyes and ears. I'm sure it didn't come as a surprise to them today that fans aren't behind Moyes 100%.

Anyway, Benteke, completely unrelated but as you've lived through a few relegation struggles yourself, do you hate the phrase "play like that all season and we'll stay up" as much as I do?

Sometimes it makes sense. Early on in a season maybe, you go to Stamford Bridge or Anfield or something, play well, fight, show a lot of spirit, but narrowly lose out. It makes sense to think that if you keep that up all season you'll be alright. However I saw a few people use that exact phrase midweek when we lost at Anfield. Ha'way man.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 03-29-2014, 10:09 AM

It's a bit of a silly/nothing phrase yeah, a pointless way of saying 'we played well'.

You're not gonna play out of your skins in every game. Bit like saying 'get 3 points after every game and we'll be OK' after every win.

Mojo · 03-29-2014, 10:58 AM

Yeah. I mean, it's more than likely true that if you play well every week you'll survive, but it's something I've heard quite a lot this season. Put in a performance against the bigger clubs, they say it. They said it throughout our cup run. I would think they would be sick of it by now, given where we are and how long we have left now to get out of it.

Palace 1 - 0 Chelsea. Opens the door further for City, and should they slip up, Liverpool as well. This is gonna to the wire, isn't it?

All eyes on Arsenal

03-29-2014, 07:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
Mojo Melancholia Eternally Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: England Posts: 5,018	10 months or so without a trophy and they have fans going to the expense of hiring a plane to carry a banner in order to voice their displeasure at his lack of immediate success? Even after 40 years of **** all, I'd be absolutely embarrassed if any fans did something like that at my club. Given the boos that met it around Old Trafford, I'd say there are plenty of United fans that feel that way. __________________ Last.FM \| Echoes and Dust

03-29-2014, 08:11 AM	#5 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	Benteke is having such a bad game. **** me Last edited by Cuthbert; 03-29-2014 at 08:21 AM.

03-29-2014, 08:43 AM	#6 (permalink)
Mojo Melancholia Eternally Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: England Posts: 5,018	The club have two choices, to either back Moyes or fire him. If they are gonna back him, then why would they take the banner down? Also, Moyes not be the fans chosen one, but he is the chosen successor to SAF. It is accurate. I'm not claiming United fans should be happy. I'm not claiming this is a successful season. I'm saying that, in my opinion, the elaborate way in which they have chosen to protest is beyond pathetic and way, way over the top. Now, I wouldn't agree with banning fans for life for taking anti-Moyes banners with them. OK, that's going too far on the part of the club. I just don't think renting a plane to fly it over the stadium is a natural progression or reasonable reaction in terms of getting their voices heard. It would embarrass me, if I was a United fan. I'm also not claiming that Moyes is doing a great job, although I am stating my belief that he's taken more criticism than is justifiable. They have turned in some very poor performances this season, some of them have rightly prompted debate around his tactics and others United have dominated from start to finish, created an abundance of chances to win the game, never looked in any danger of either conceding and/or losing, and yet still Moyes takes it in the neck for presumably not being able to put it in the net himself. Something SAF wouldn't have any control over either. He has made some questionable statements to the press, I agree, and he has made some decisions I fail to find much logic in. I think when United are in a slump he often looks as though he is in way over his head and I wonder if he is really strong enough to avoid cracking under the pressure. So is he the right man for the job? I obviously wonder if he is, but after less than a full season I'm not gonna claim to be able to know for sure. I also think the attendance at OT is relevant. If you wanna talk "real", local, lifelong United fans, then you're talking about a lot of season ticket holders, right? All of whom should be at OT today, and there was clearly, audibly, boos around the ground when they flew the plane over. Unless this protest was extended to not attending today, but that isn't gonna help me believe in their credentials as "real" fans. __________________ Last.FM \| Echoes and Dust

03-29-2014, 09:21 AM	#8 (permalink)
Mojo Melancholia Eternally Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: England Posts: 5,018	I see where you're coming from with the banner. It's a logical point of view. However I'm looking at it from the point of view that it's the clubs decision who succeeds SAF, they have the bottom line, they take the responsibility. They have put it up and backed their decision and backed their manager, and now they aren't gonna back down on that. You could argue they shouldn't back down. Sure the fans don't have to like it, but I don't think their reaction today was a helpful one that leaves them looking particularly graceful or dignified. I don't think it's gonna achieve anything either. The board have eyes and ears. I'm sure it didn't come as a surprise to them today that fans aren't behind Moyes 100%. Anyway, Benteke, completely unrelated but as you've lived through a few relegation struggles yourself, do you hate the phrase "play like that all season and we'll stay up" as much as I do? Sometimes it makes sense. Early on in a season maybe, you go to Stamford Bridge or Anfield or something, play well, fight, show a lot of spirit, but narrowly lose out. It makes sense to think that if you keep that up all season you'll be alright. However I saw a few people use that exact phrase midweek when we lost at Anfield. Ha'way man. __________________ Last.FM \| Echoes and Dust

03-29-2014, 10:58 AM	#10 (permalink)
Mojo Melancholia Eternally Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: England Posts: 5,018	Yeah. I mean, it's more than likely true that if you play well every week you'll survive, but it's something I've heard quite a lot this season. Put in a performance against the bigger clubs, they say it. They said it throughout our cup run. I would think they would be sick of it by now, given where we are and how long we have left now to get out of it. Palace 1 - 0 Chelsea. Opens the door further for City, and should they slip up, Liverpool as well. This is gonna to the wire, isn't it? All eyes on Arsenal __________________ Last.FM \| Echoes and Dust

03-29-2014, 07:53 AM	#4 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	Also to add to my post, the United fans most against that plane, are overseas based ones who've never been to a match and are desperate to prove their 'top fan' credentials, showing everyone how much they're going to back an obvious failure purely because they've probably had stick all their lives about supporting that team and living in the US or whatever. Co-sign Goofle.

03-29-2014, 10:09 AM	#9 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	It's a bit of a silly/nothing phrase yeah, a pointless way of saying 'we played well'. You're not gonna play out of your skins in every game. Bit like saying 'get 3 points after every game and we'll be OK' after every win.