The English Football Thread

**Goofle** · 01-02-2013, 06:04 PM

Pires was a MUCH better winger than Giggs, there's absolutely no doubt. Bergkamp was MUCH better than Cantona. Maybe you have two proper strikers like Shearer or RVN, and that's fair, but nobody compares to him as a second striker. Vieria speaks for himself, absolute beats. Sagna is a much better player than Neville ever was.

Titles and longevity aren't my concerns, it's who was the better footballer in general.

14232949 · 01-02-2013, 06:18 PM

In what way was Pires better than Giggs?
Giggs had him beat in terms of passing, vision, shooting, fitness, leadership, dribbling, crossing and footballing ability.
Perhaps if we were talking about who had the better goatee, Pires would win, but in no way was he better than Giggs as a footballer.
I'd hasten to say Giggs is the best left sided midfielder of our time if not all time. He's still going strong today. It takes a really special player to have played competitively at the highest level for as long as Ryan Giggs has.
In his prime he'd have walked into any starting line up of any country or any club on this world, can't say the same for Robert Pires.

My all time premier league team would look like;

Henry
Shearer

Giggs
Scholes
Gerrard
Ronaldo

A.Cole
Carragher
Terry
G.Neville

Schmeichel

**Goofle** · 01-02-2013, 07:05 PM

Pires has Giggs beat on every footballing level aside from maybe a prime Giggs was a little faster. Seriously, anyone who truly understands football or has watched Pires in his prime would know that. There really isn't any debate.

Gerrard over Vieira? Okay then. Carragher over Campbell, Adams, Vidic, Ferdinand etc? Okay, that makes sense.

14232949 · 01-02-2013, 07:10 PM

Take off the Arsenal filter glasses Goofs, they're blurring your perception.
If you must 'truly understand' football to be under the opinion that Pires is better than Giggs, than you must be the only person in the world that truly understands football, congratulations. A job on match of the day surely awaits you.

I've got Scholes to play the visionary passer in midfield, why would I need Vieira?
Gerrard's one of those players that can turn a game by himself, he carried Liverpool himself for many a season. When was the last time you saw Paddy Vieria burst through three players and rifle one in from 30 yards?
Carragher's more consistent and a better tackler than the other players you have mentioned.
Adams: Didn't have much to his game outwith heading and tackling, similar to John Terry in that he lacked skill on the ball.
Ferdinand: Too injury-prone and unreliable.
Vidic: Too prone to moments of madness and poor discipline.

**Goofle** · 01-02-2013, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merrycaaant

Take off the Arsenal filter glasses Goofs, they're blurring your perception.
If you must 'truly understand' football to be under the opinion that Pires is better than Giggs, than you must be the only person in the world that truly understands football, congratulations. A job on match of the day surely awaits you.

I like you man, but your comments are absolutely of the MOTD variety. How on earth you went on to say the things you did I have no idea.

**Goofle** · 01-02-2013, 07:13 PM

Gerrard vs Vieira is no question. Vieira is the best midfielder in English Football history. Absolute GOAT of a man. Probably the best all-round midfielder ever actually.

I can't even debate with a guy who honestly thinks Carragher is better than those mentioned, it truly baffles me. Seriously, do you really think that? Yeah, Carragher is okay, pretty great in his time but nothing in comparison to those World Class defenders.

As for Pires...

The guy only played half of the season and look how our players payed tribute. Miles better than Giggs in every way.

And no, I am not the only one who thinks these things.

**Goofle** · 01-02-2013, 07:33 PM

I notice I have been totally condescending. I apologize for that.

14232949 · 01-02-2013, 07:43 PM

I'm not saying Vieria wasn't great, but for those that 'truly understand' football having two central midfielders that have mirroring styles playing together doesn't work just look at Lampard & Gerrard for England.
One midfielder will be more offensive minded and look to start and be involved with attacking plays whilst the other looks to break down the oppositions play and look to cut teams open with passing rather than movement.
Gerrard plays the attacking role, Scholes the defensive.

Carragher may not be as big-named as Vidic or Ferdinand but he is the most committed and reliable of the three, attributes you need in your centre half.
He's a solid all-round player, he plays a similar style to Adams but is more fundamentally sound so gets the nod.

As for Giggs Vs. Pires, your evidence as to why Pires is better is because his team mates realized his contributions to the team?
It's not as if Giggs has gone unsung either in his illustrious career. Could Pires still play at the highest level when he's Giggs's age? The evidence would suggest no.
And since we're on the youtube posting part of the discussion, when was the last time Pires did this to Man Utd?

**Goofle** · 01-02-2013, 07:48 PM

The idea that Scholes and Gerrard would somehow work better than Scholes and Vieira is strange to be honest.

I used the youtube clip to highlight how important/great of a footballer he was. The guy was light years ahead of Giggs in terms of footballing ability. I don't think anybody who watched both week after week in their primes would disagree.

Of course Giggs has had a better career (although never won/played in a World Cup) but that doesn't change the fact that Pires was a far superior footballer.

14232949 · 01-02-2013, 07:58 PM

Really, I think it's a good balance, plus Gerrard (in his prime) had the ability to completely turn a game on his hand especially against weaker opponents.
A combination of anyone and Scholes would probably work to be honest.

Here's an interesting query, if you were to look at this from an open minded perspective, on their day (best game Giggs ever played, best game Pires ever played) who's better?

01-02-2013, 06:18 PM	#2 (permalink)
14232949 The Big Dog Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,989	In what way was Pires better than Giggs? Giggs had him beat in terms of passing, vision, shooting, fitness, leadership, dribbling, crossing and footballing ability. Perhaps if we were talking about who had the better goatee, Pires would win, but in no way was he better than Giggs as a footballer. I'd hasten to say Giggs is the best left sided midfielder of our time if not all time. He's still going strong today. It takes a really special player to have played competitively at the highest level for as long as Ryan Giggs has. In his prime he'd have walked into any starting line up of any country or any club on this world, can't say the same for Robert Pires. My all time premier league team would look like; Henry Shearer Giggs Scholes Gerrard Ronaldo A.Cole Carragher Terry G.Neville Schmeichel

01-02-2013, 07:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
14232949 The Big Dog Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,989	Take off the Arsenal filter glasses Goofs, they're blurring your perception. If you must 'truly understand' football to be under the opinion that Pires is better than Giggs, than you must be the only person in the world that truly understands football, congratulations. A job on match of the day surely awaits you. I've got Scholes to play the visionary passer in midfield, why would I need Vieira? Gerrard's one of those players that can turn a game by himself, he carried Liverpool himself for many a season. When was the last time you saw Paddy Vieria burst through three players and rifle one in from 30 yards? Carragher's more consistent and a better tackler than the other players you have mentioned. Adams: Didn't have much to his game outwith heading and tackling, similar to John Terry in that he lacked skill on the ball. Ferdinand: Too injury-prone and unreliable. Vidic: Too prone to moments of madness and poor discipline.

01-02-2013, 07:43 PM	#8 (permalink)
14232949 The Big Dog Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,989	I'm not saying Vieria wasn't great, but for those that 'truly understand' football having two central midfielders that have mirroring styles playing together doesn't work just look at Lampard & Gerrard for England. One midfielder will be more offensive minded and look to start and be involved with attacking plays whilst the other looks to break down the oppositions play and look to cut teams open with passing rather than movement. Gerrard plays the attacking role, Scholes the defensive. Carragher may not be as big-named as Vidic or Ferdinand but he is the most committed and reliable of the three, attributes you need in your centre half. He's a solid all-round player, he plays a similar style to Adams but is more fundamentally sound so gets the nod. As for Giggs Vs. Pires, your evidence as to why Pires is better is because his team mates realized his contributions to the team? It's not as if Giggs has gone unsung either in his illustrious career. Could Pires still play at the highest level when he's Giggs's age? The evidence would suggest no. And since we're on the youtube posting part of the discussion, when was the last time Pires did this to Man Utd?

01-02-2013, 07:58 PM	#10 (permalink)
14232949 The Big Dog Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Scotland Posts: 1,989	Really, I think it's a good balance, plus Gerrard (in his prime) had the ability to completely turn a game on his hand especially against weaker opponents. A combination of anyone and Scholes would probably work to be honest. Here's an interesting query, if you were to look at this from an open minded perspective, on their day (best game Giggs ever played, best game Pires ever played) who's better?