The English Football Thread

[Bulldog]

Anyone else looking forward to England v Spain this weekend? I am myself. Not because I think we're capable of beating them or anything, but because it'll be interesting to see just how far our younger players have yet to go if England wants to be a competitive team again. It'll be an opportunity to see a lot of our youngsters in action...or at least it should be (if I see Gareth Barry and Frank Lampard starting, I'll be a bit annoyed really).

Talking of, like, football and that, does anyone genuinely expect England to go far in Euro 2012? Personally I think with or without Rooney (who's barely turned up to a major tournament since Euro 2004), we'll be lucky to get past the group stage. I see the whole thing as an opportunity to build for the future, give untried players big-game experience and such, as opposed to something we can actually come even close to winning.

All that said, I really hope I'm wrong in writing off the lads like this. It's just that I've had a serious crisis of faith in the team since the last world cup (the draw against Montenegro at Wembley in particular).

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Bulldog

Anyone else looking forward to England v Spain this weekend? I am myself. Not because I think we're capable of beating them or anything, but because it'll be interesting to see just how far our younger players have yet to go if England wants to be a competitive team again. It'll be an opportunity to see a lot of our youngsters in action...or at least it should be (if I see Gareth Barry and Frank Lampard starting, I'll be a bit annoyed really).

Talking of, like, football and that, does anyone genuinely expect England to go far in Euro 2012? Personally I think with or without Rooney (who's barely turned up to a major tournament since Euro 2004), we'll be lucky to get past the group stage. I see the whole thing as an opportunity to build for the future, give untried players big-game experience and such, as opposed to something we can actually come even close to winning.

All that said, I really hope I'm wrong in writing off the lads like this. It's just that I've had a serious crisis of faith in the team since the last world cup (the draw against Montenegro at Wembley in particular).

If the English press stopped building up England before every tournament, they might actually get somewhere. Ever since I`ve been watching football (since the 1980s) the expectations on the national team have been huge. The only time it was more relaxed, was actually before they hosted the EC in 1996!!! and that was largely due to the fact, that they had played badly at EC 1992 and failed to qualify for the WC in 1994.

The worst thing that can actually happen to England is if they beat Spain in this friendly, as it will have the press in hysteria and stamping England as favourites for 2012!

[Bulldog]

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

If the English press stopped building up England before every tournament, they might actually get somewhere. Ever since I`ve been watching football (since the 1980s) the expectations on the national team have been huge. The only time it was more relaxed, was actually before they hosted the EC in 1996!!! and that was largely due to the fact, that they had played badly at EC 1992 and failed to qualify for the WC in 1994.

The worst thing that can actually happen to England is if they beat Spain in this friendly, as it will have the press in hysteria and stamping England as favourites for 2012!

Couldn't agree more. I've been watching England since Euro '96, and the level of hype surrounding the lads before each tournament they've qualified for is just unbelievable, no matter what they didn't do to earn it. I remember a mate of mine from Northern Ireland telling me the thing that annoys him most about the English fans is that they think their team has some god-given right to win every game they play in, and you can see where he's coming from.

I'd love to live to see us at least come really close to winning a major international competition in my lifetime but, until the press lowers their expectations, that's simply not going to happen. To be fair to the press though, I legitimately thought we'd reach the semis in South Africa only to see some team performances tht can only be described as nightmarish.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Bulldog

Couldn't agree more. I've been watching England since Euro '96, and the level of hype surrounding the lads before each tournament they've qualified for is just unbelievable, no matter what they didn't do to earn it. I remember a mate of mine from Northern Ireland telling me the thing that annoys him most about the English fans is that they think their team has some god-given right to win every game they play in, and you can see where he's coming from.

I'd love to live to see us at least come really close to winning a major international competition in my lifetime but, until the press lowers their expectations, that's simply not going to happen. To be fair to the press though, I legitimately thought we'd reach the semis in South Africa only to see some team performances tht can only be described as nightmarish.

The big problem is The Premiership and the hype that surrounds it, its been the biggest league in the world for several years now and thats where most of the money is and most people including the press regard it as the best league in the world, in reality though its not the most technical of leagues and thats where England I think suffer on the biggest stages as both La Liga and Serie A are far more technical and tactical. Apart from a few world class players that England have had over the years, the majority that make up the squad, wouldn`t be good enough to make the final squads of any other major footballing nation and that I believe is where the big problem lies.

I always remember an article many years ago that I think holds true. That for a national team to win a major tournament it needs at least 6 world class players (Greece being the exception in 2004)

I`ve seen England come close or look the part of going all the way in a couple of tournaments. Mexico 1986, Italia 1990 and Euro 1996. I can tell you especially on Mexico 1986 and Italia 1990 poor old Bobby Robson was hounded by the English press and critcized for their crap displays, but the team nearly went the whole way in 86 and 90 and were probably almost as good as the eventual winners.

[jackhammer]

Originally Posted by Bulldog

Anyone else looking forward to England v Spain this weekend? I am myself. Not because I think we're capable of beating them or anything, but because it'll be interesting to see just how far our younger players have yet to go if England wants to be a competitive team again. It'll be an opportunity to see a lot of our youngsters in action...or at least it should be (if I see Gareth Barry and Frank Lampard starting, I'll be a bit annoyed really).

Talking of, like, football and that, does anyone genuinely expect England to go far in Euro 2012? Personally I think with or without Rooney (who's barely turned up to a major tournament since Euro 2004), we'll be lucky to get past the group stage. I see the whole thing as an opportunity to build for the future, give untried players big-game experience and such, as opposed to something we can actually come even close to winning.

All that said, I really hope I'm wrong in writing off the lads like this. It's just that I've had a serious crisis of faith in the team since the last world cup (the draw against Montenegro at Wembley in particular).

No. I think we will be played off the park and quite rightly so. After watching England for over nearly 30 years I accepted a while back that we are just not a world force in football anymore. Sure we probably have the most exciting league but that is mainly because of the influx of foreign players to our league. How many English players play abroad? Virtually nil and that is because we are not technically gifted enough and this is beaten out of kids at a young age in academies. The focus is on strength and power far too much and the kids with the tricks are usually told to cut it out.

Don't get me wrong I think we have some damn fine players and if we play the 'English' game then we can give anyone a good game but when the game is slowed down as per the European style then we are not good enough and opposition teams know this and exploit that weakness.

It could also be argued that as a team ourselves we are guilty of slowing the game down and it just doesn't suit us. Having Fabio as manager is a big mistake. His recent comments about the state of English football and lack of homegrown players is an honest assessment but hardly inspiring to the team.

The press here also have an impact on the team. How many ex - players have come out in recent months saying that playing for England is a chore and not a pleasure? and these are respected players and not two bit fringe players.

I personally don't even think that we will get out of the group stages at 2012 but if we do with flying colours then is it right to mess with that formula and bring another player in, no matter how good they are?

[Bulldog]

BBC Sport - Fabio Capello says Frank Lampard will captain England against Spain

No. Just...no.

Frank Lampard's had one, yes one exceptional game in an England shirt in the last 5 bleeding years (against Croatia at Wembley). Sure, he's on decent form for Chelsea, but surely he's proven time and time again lately that if he ever was international quality, he's simply not up to the task anymore. And now we're putting him in the company of legendary players like Bobby Moore, Billy Wright, Emlyn Hughes and Bryan Robson. Great move Fabio

Why do we keep picking (let alone making captains of) players like this who've proven several times over that they're not good enough for international football?! Lampard's not the only one either. Theo Walcott, Scott Carson, Gareth Barry, Glen Johnson...Adam Johnson can't get off the bench for Man City this season, so what good he'll be in an England shirt this weekend is news to me.

Of the old guard I think only Terry, Gerrard, Ashley Cole and a criminally under-capped Scott Parker are of the level of quality to be playing at Euro 2012. As for that other fella...

Originally Posted by jackhammer

I personally don't even think that we will get out of the group stages at 2012 but if we do with flying colours then is it right to mess with that formula and bring another player in, no matter how good they are?

...if I were in charge of the England side that by some miracle got through the group stage at next year's finals, I certainly wouldn't upset the balance by shoehorning Rooney into a proven success formula. He's definitely worth taking to the finals though, whether his ban gets reduced or not. He'll be a great plan B if a) we get to the knockout stage and b) he actually remembers to turn up this time.

[derek]

My knowledge is limited, so bear with me. Man U and Chelsea plays in the Barclay league while FC Barcelona plays in the Champions league? So that means they never get to play each other?

[Bulldog]

BBC Sport - International friendly: England 1-0 Spain

Ah, good old humble pie - looks like I'm eating tonight!

I take back back what I said about Lamps - he played a very good game tonight. Scott Parker, Joleon Lescott and Ashley Cole were the best performers I reckon. Wellbeck and Rodwell looked really good when they came on too. Just a shame Capello insisted in handing Walcott a start - when's he gonna learn that all the kid can do is run?

Sure, it was only a friendly, and I stand by saying we probably won't get past the group stage of Euro 2012. It's nice to have something to smile about as England fan again though.

Originally Posted by derek

My knowledge is limited, so bear with me. Man U and Chelsea plays in the Barclay league while FC Barcelona plays in the Champions league? So that means they never get to play each other?

FC Barcelona plays in La Liga - the Spanish equivalent of the Premier League. Man U and Chelsea are in the English Premiership, aka Barclay's Premier League.

[derek]

Originally Posted by Bulldog

BBC Sport - International friendly: England 1-0 Spain

Ah, good old humble pie - looks like I'm eating tonight!

I take back back what I said about Lamps - he played a very good game tonight. Scott Parker, Joleon Lescott and Ashley Cole were the best performers I reckon. Wellbeck and Rodwell looked really good when they came on too. Just a shame Capello insisted in handing Walcott a start - when's he gonna learn that all the kid can do is run?

Sure, it was only a friendly, and I stand by saying we probably won't get past the group stage of Euro 2012. It's nice to have something to smile about as England fan again though.


FC Barcelona plays in La Liga - the Spanish equivalent of the Premier League. Man U and Chelsea are in the English Premiership, aka Barclay's Premier League.

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Btw, where online do you guys get to see both leagues play for free? It used to be on ESPN, but i don't see it anymore. Thanks again.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by derek

My knowledge is limited, so bear with me. Man U and Chelsea plays in the Barclay league while FC Barcelona plays in the Champions league? So that means they never get to play each other?

In addition to what Bulldog told you, they can play against each other in the Champions League as long as they have qualified from their own domestic leagues (top 3/4 positions qualifies this from the English and Spanish leagues as they are the biggest two in Europe) The three teams that you`ve mentioned nearly always finish in the top positions so always qualify and its luck of the draw if they meet in the Champions.