Greatest sportsmen of all time?

~~Cuthbert~~ · 06-06-2015, 05:39 AM

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Originally Posted by Nurse Duckett

To Goofle and Monkeytennis,

Did Messi win the World Cup almost single handedly? No he didn't, he disappeared didn't he, he's never won a World Cup and i doubt he ever will. Maradona won the 1986 World Cup for Argentina with the most impressive and explosive WC performances in modern history. Did Messi leave Barca and join a small unfashionable club in Italy that had never won the Italian title and lead them to the Italian League title? No, he hasnt has he..

Absolutely spot on, yeah agreed. I want to see Messi win the World Cup on his own too. I'm talking literally on his own. I don't even want to see him pass to another player. He's got to do it all totally by himself.

Then I want to see him do 'it' (whatever that means) as rain falls down on a day between Monday and Friday in temperatures ranging between -5 and 5 degrees against world class ball throwers like Ryan Shawcross in Stoke-on-Trent.

Then - and only then - will he be the greatest ever.

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So, if a player hasnt scored as many goals as Messi they're not as good as him is that what you're saying? By that reasoning any player that has scored more than him is better than him? All midfielders and defenders that don't score a lot of goals are never going to be as good as him? Its all just about goals is it?

They're not as good as him because he's three world class players rolled into one. He dribbles like the best winger in the world, passes like the best playmaker in the world and finishes like the best striker in the world. The statistics all back this up as well.

The fact he's been doing this for the best part of a decade as well, nobody in the modern era (90s onward) has reached this level of performance and consistency. Ronaldo comes close with the numbers but that's about it.

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I hope neither of you take this the wrong way, but i have to say it. I obviously understand the game of Football/Soccer on a much deeper level than either of you, can I suggest you both try and open your minds a little or in Goofles case a lot, and study the game. Don't use Sky TV as a study aid, that would be like asking a 9 year old with obvious learning difficulties to help you revise for your mathematics degree exam.

Please Nurse Duckett, educate us. Bless us with your infinite and unquestionable wisdom on this fine sport. I beg that you shower us with your wealth of knowledge and understanding, lead us from the dark of the ignorant to the all encompassing glow of the enlightened.

We will become not only more educated individuals, but better human beings as well.

Please.

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ps Bergkamp was twice the player Messi will ever be, if Goofle was half the Arsenal fan he pretends to be he'd already know this, he was better at everything than Messi. Thierry Henry said that Bergkamp was the best player he ever played with, and remember Henry was at Barca with Messi! Which opinion carries the most weight, your Messi scored more therefore hes better or Henrys professional opinion?

Yeah it wouldn't be like a footballer to talk shit would it.

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pps. I'd bet my left bollock that you two will be saying Neymars the best player ever within the next 5 years, because thats what Sky TV will be telling you to say. You'll probably both deny this today, but that's only because Sky haven't brainwashed you both yet, they will, just like they have about Messi.

I doubt it. My opinion on Neymar is well known on here. I've been saying for quite a while I don't think he's world class yet (starting to reach that level now though), even before the World Cup I was saying he wasn't there yet and Brazil were gonna get smashed.

btw I don't have Sky and all the La Liga I watch is on an American channel.

**Goofle** · 06-06-2015, 06:27 AM

I don't have sky either.

Thom Yorke · 06-07-2015, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninetales

I know orr is great and maybe he is better than gretzky (I think comparing different positions is unfair as is tho, which is why im not going to say hasek > gretzky), but isn't using offensive numbers to show how great a dman is one of the reason guys like Karlsson is so hated now? I mean he has some ridiculous defenseman numbers but people still get pissed when he rightfully wins the Norris. different argument but sue me.

and comparing Orr's ppg with guys like Crosby's is super unfair unless you adjust it for the era.

again not saying orr wasn't the best dman of all time. he very likely is.

Orr was not sub-par defensively like Karlsson is though. Good offensively does not mean bad defensively. Take a guy like Weber for example; he's a D-man that is elite in both regards. Elite defensemen should have some type of balance between offense and defense because hockey, more so than any sport, has you switching between offense and defense in a heartbeat, and quite often. A guy like Karlsson is not nearly good enough defensively to be that 28 minute-a-night, all-situations workhorse for a team. The Sens do use him that much, but I don't think he impacts the game like a lot of the other elite D-men do because he is pretty poor without the puck.

By all accounts, Orr was elite defensively as well. Sure, he's known more for his offense, but many considered him the best defensive d-man of his time as well, and no one seems to have him at anything less than "good defensively".

When you reflect on a guy like Coffey, some people just absolutely blast him for how poor he was defensively, and it's a main reason why no one has him even close to Orr despite putting up similar offensive numbers in his heyday (along with era-adjusted scoring and surrounding talent, of course).

Thing with Orr is that I don't know if anyone in NHL history has been further ahead of the curve on a physical attribute as Orr was with his skating ability. Even if you just watch highlights of him, it literally looks like he's going up against a bunch of kids sometimes. It's something that let him take huge risks on the ice; he could basically always be back in place if something went wrong.

Ninetales · 06-07-2015, 05:35 PM

im obviously not ripping orr or anything, he probably was elite at everything. Good point about Coffey, though ya his numbers were no doubt influenced by the insane teams he was on.

think ive said it before but I think Karlsson defensive abilities are very much underrated. and Weber's defensive abilities are very much overrated. id take Karlsson over Weber in a heartbeat. and I don't know if theres a dman in the league that can impact a game like Karlsson.

Chula Vista · 06-07-2015, 07:39 PM

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Originally Posted by Thom Yorke

Thing with Orr is that I don't know if anyone in NHL history has been further ahead of the curve on a physical attribute as Orr was with his skating ability. Even if you just watch highlights of him, it literally looks like he's going up against a bunch of kids sometimes. It's something that let him take huge risks on the ice; he could basically always be back in place if something went wrong.

So much this.

~~Cuthbert~~ · 06-26-2015, 04:58 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1Gd8HfcU1A

You'll like this one Goof.

FRED HALE SR. · 06-26-2015, 05:08 PM

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Originally Posted by Chula Vista

So much this.

I'd take Niedermayer over Orr five ways to Sunday. Same reason I find Mario Lemieux better then Gretzky. Orr and Gretzky played in times when the ice was wide open and offense ruled the day. I am not by any stretch saying they weren't sure fire hall of famers and dynamic players but its the same reason I gotta choose a guy like Hakeem Olajuwon over Wilt Chamberlain.

With regard to Messi, there is just no argument that he is the greatest player the sport has ever seen. Bergkamp couldn't carry his jock and this is coming from a huge Bergkamp fan.

Unknown Soldier · 06-26-2015, 05:27 PM

What no mention of Lance Armstrong

FRED HALE SR. · 06-26-2015, 05:31 PM

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Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

What no mention of Lance Armstrong

Anybody who dated Sheryl Crow is exempt from the list. This is a music site afterall.

Unknown Soldier · 06-26-2015, 05:47 PM

Point taken, so instead I'll nominate Eddy Merckx the greatest cyclist that ever lived

This 6 min video from a 70's documentary is absolutely amazing and the chosen music goes perfectly with it, goes from training rides to proper races.

06-07-2015, 05:35 PM	#34 (permalink)
Ninetales Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: livin wild Posts: 2,179	im obviously not ripping orr or anything, he probably was elite at everything. Good point about Coffey, though ya his numbers were no doubt influenced by the insane teams he was on. think ive said it before but I think Karlsson defensive abilities are very much underrated. and Weber's defensive abilities are very much overrated. id take Karlsson over Weber in a heartbeat. and I don't know if theres a dman in the league that can impact a game like Karlsson.

06-26-2015, 04:58 PM	#36 (permalink)
~~Cuthbert~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: The Black Country Posts: 8,827	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1Gd8HfcU1A You'll like this one Goof.