Great Debate: Are eSports sports?

GuitarBizarre · 07-24-2013, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newkie

How does a kickabout not encompass the three above? There is a winning condition, you verify it by goals scored, you follow the rules and/or have someone play ref to arbitrate?

Finally, if it doesn't devalue it as an experience, why are people in the gaming community bothered about being perceived as athletes? Are they bothered? If so, why?

I should have clarified - There's rather more to being a governing body than just being a referee. Specifically it involves being an authority to whom people in the discipline will refer in any and all calls, and that has the power (And the means to enforce that power) to both define, change, and amend the rules of the competition outside of the game itself - IE, the rules of a Cycle race are to get from point to point faster than the other guy - the UCI's job is to ensure that this is being done fairly and also to make judgements and rulings pertaining to the manner in which it is done - in the UCI's case they do things like rule on seat heights, bike weights, etc.

In football, for example, where there IS a governing body to refer to, your casual kickabout with your mates has no rules regarding ball size, weight, player transfer windows, proper enforcement of offside, pitch conditions, sendings off, proper timekeeping, etc. FIFA's job as the governing body of the sport is to ensure that in sporting competition, as opposed to amateur play, all of the above are followed.

It is possible that you could form a footballing offshoot where your kickabout rules would be considered valid at all levels of play, but you'd need to form a body of scope to do the above, or whatever other administrative tasks were necessary to keep play in your chosen discipline consistent across all players and (if applicable or forthcoming) tournament settings.

Newkie · 07-25-2013, 03:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuitarBizarre

I should have clarified - There's rather more to being a governing body than just being a referee. Specifically it involves being an authority to whom people in the discipline will refer in any and all calls, and that has the power (And the means to enforce that power) to both define, change, and amend the rules of the competition outside of the game itself - IE, the rules of a Cycle race are to get from point to point faster than the other guy - the UCI's job is to ensure that this is being done fairly and also to make judgements and rulings pertaining to the manner in which it is done - in the UCI's case they do things like rule on seat heights, bike weights, etc.

In football, for example, where there IS a governing body to refer to, your casual kickabout with your mates has no rules regarding ball size, weight, player transfer windows, proper enforcement of offside, pitch conditions, sendings off, proper timekeeping, etc. FIFA's job as the governing body of the sport is to ensure that in sporting competition, as opposed to amateur play, all of the above are followed.

It is possible that you could form a footballing offshoot where your kickabout rules would be considered valid at all levels of play, but you'd need to form a body of scope to do the above, or whatever other administrative tasks were necessary to keep play in your chosen discipline consistent across all players and (if applicable or forthcoming) tournament settings.

Alright, so anyone who plays under those circumstances is a sportsman? For instance, in England there are about 500 football divisions, although the top 5 (if that) are the only ones that count. Some lower than that are Semi-Professional, and those at the bottom of the tier are amateurs. But they are playing in the English league system and follow Fifa/F.A rules. So, by definition, are they all athletes/sportsmen?

GuitarBizarre · 07-25-2013, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Newkie

Alright, so anyone who plays under those circumstances is a sportsman? For instance, in England there are about 500 football divisions, although the top 5 (if that) are the only ones that count. Some lower than that are Semi-Professional, and those at the bottom of the tier are amateurs. But they are playing in the English league system and follow Fifa/F.A rules. So, by definition, are they all athletes/sportsmen?

I would say they can definitely be thought of as such. There is perhaps room for a delineation between "sportsmen" (Workplace teams, skilled amateurs, those seeking competition as an extension of their recreational game) "professional sportsmen" (Those playing for some or all of their living wage, or for a prizepool) and "elite sportsmen" (Those aiming to be champions in their own right) in that group though. The key delineation is that if they're taking the time to play in a league, minor or otherwise, that's a sign of a partial or complete change in attitude from "dicking around to have fun" and "Playing to win". It may not be a complete or even significant switch from one to the other, but there's clearly an element there that the casual game doesn't have.