Great Debate: Are eSports sports?

Guybrush · 05-19-2012, 02:45 AM

It's a sport, innit? It's an e-sport.

I know that sports are meant to be physical activities. That being said, the focus on the physical aspect is the only real difference. Off the top of my head, I can find many similarities between StarCraft and a competitive sport like f.ex boxing, as GB rightly points out in his first post. I also think the competitors on top of their games definitely have very fined tuned dexterity and are highly observant and organized in their minds so while they may not be "physical" like we might expect from people who do sports, I don't think they're doing something just anyone could do with enough training either. They have some natural ability from birth which gives them an edge.

~~FireWaterBurn~~ · 05-19-2012, 03:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

It's a sport, innit? It's an e-sport.

I know that sports are meant to be physical activities. That being said, the focus on the physical aspect is the only real difference. Off the top of my head, I can find many similarities between StarCraft and a competitive sport like f.ex boxing, as GB rightly points out in his first post. I also think the competitors on top of their games definitely have very fined tuned dexterity and are highly observant and organized in their minds so while they may not be "physical" like we might expect from people who do sports, I don't think they're doing something just anyone could do with enough training either. They have some natural ability from birth which gives them an edge.

I'll disagree about gamers having some sort of natural ability and I'm not sure the point of that comment either. Are you saying real athletes don't have as many natural abilities, or are you showing they are similiar in that real athletes have natural advantages too? The bolded part is exactly why it's called a game and not called a sport. The main difference is the physical aspect like you said, which just so happens to be the main factor in determining if something is a sport or not.

Guybrush · 05-19-2012, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireWaterBurn

I'll disagree about gamers having some sort of natural ability and I'm not sure the point of that comment either. Are you saying real athletes don't have as many natural abilities, or are you showing they are similiar in that real athletes have natural advantages too? The bolded part is exactly why it's called a game and not called a sport. The main difference is the physical aspect like you said, which just so happens to be the main factor in determining if something is a sport or not.

I know it's a game. I'm not contesting that.

I think in most sports, some will have a natural advantage. They will be the right size body for example. A great distance runner won't necessarily make for a truly great boxer. I don't think just about anyone can compete with the best in StarCraft either. The competition is that hard. So I really just wanted to point out that these people are "athletes" at their own game, just like olympic swimmers, runners, soccer players or pole vaulters are.

GuitarBizarre · 05-19-2012, 07:36 AM

Give it up tore, the guy is more intent on throwing out blanket generalisations and insults than he is in actually discussing anything on the grounds the discussion was intended. He's obviously not read any of the preceding 15 pages of discussion either, because everything he's been saying was discussed to death by page 8 or so.

Thus far exactly zero counterpoints have been raised that haven't relied on some sort of innate instinctual defining of sports as no more than strenuous physical activity, a point that has been addressed at length already. Nobody has even attempted to claim that eSports do not contain some other defining element of sporting competition. Its all been about the physical side, and speaking truthfully, I think big3 nailed it when he said this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3

I don't even know how we begin to have a conversation if you don't refute a counterpoint.

"Its purely physical!"
"Says who? Here are a few ways they aren't physical"
"But sports are physical!"

/splosions

Its evident that either nobody CAN provide a compelling argument to the contrary, or nobody is WILLING to provide a compelling argument to the contrary.

Paedantic Basterd · 05-19-2012, 11:37 AM

Whether or not you think it's silliness, you've got to admit that logically, GB and Tuna have it nailed.

The Batlord · 05-19-2012, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FireWaterBurn

Umm... thanks for the peek into your "gamers i think are hott" picture collection. I really do believe that gamers are generally a bunch of nerds who wish they were athletes. Maybe if they can get acceptance from others by calling their gaming a 'sport' they will feel better about themselves. I think it's some sort of deep-seeded jealousy that they would never admit. I can't be certain. If it appeared as though I think every single person to ever pick up a controller or computer mouse was a fat virgin with acne, I apologize. I will clarify that I didn't mean every single gamer.

Either way, gaming isn't an athletic activity. As I've said, if you can do it while drinking Mountain Dew from a sofa, then it's not a sport. From the reasons given for supporting gaming as a sport, I'm not sure there is much that wouldn't apply to other field such as something like journalism. It requires physical activity, there's competition, there are celebrities, there are fans who don't write themselves, etc.

Guybrush · 05-19-2012, 01:20 PM

Well, having read a bit more, I agree with GB and Tuna. I'm no expert on what's sport or not, but I figure if snooker is a sport and darts is a sport - and certainly if chess is a sport - then eSports can be sports. Certainly StarCraft!

MoonlitSunshine · 05-19-2012, 01:45 PM

Almost everyone defending eSports in this thread seems to be focusing on the people who are giving no reasonable argument. I feel that I at least offered reasonable reason not to consider them sports: not because I think they aren't "worthy" or any ridiculous reason like that, but because it would create an unnecessary ambiguity.

Hey, here's a similar idea, why don't we take all games involving a ball and call them all "Ball". They all share the common denominator of being played competitively and involving a ball, so that makes them the same, right? There's a reason why we call them Football and basketball and baseball. It allows us to make a distinction between different things.

The simple truth is that, to me, it seems like those proposing such a name-merge are in some way embarrassed by the term "eSports" when in fact it's just a name, like the way email is different to mail, ecommerce is different to commerce, and electronics are different to... err, nevermind. The simple fact that they have been given the moniker eSports implies that they are already considered sports at least on a general level. Why is it so important that that "e" that is a valid identifier be removed?

Mrd00d · 05-19-2012, 02:07 PM

I think GB and Tuna have it down, and Moonlit makes a valid points. eSports seem to be a subset type of sport.

FETCHER. · 05-19-2012, 03:00 PM

This is absolutely ludicrous.

05-19-2012, 02:45 AM	#151 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	It's a sport, innit? It's an e-sport. I know that sports are meant to be physical activities. That being said, the focus on the physical aspect is the only real difference. Off the top of my head, I can find many similarities between StarCraft and a competitive sport like f.ex boxing, as GB rightly points out in his first post. I also think the competitors on top of their games definitely have very fined tuned dexterity and are highly observant and organized in their minds so while they may not be "physical" like we might expect from people who do sports, I don't think they're doing something just anyone could do with enough training either. They have some natural ability from birth which gives them an edge. __________________ Something Completely Different

05-19-2012, 01:20 PM	#157 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	Well, having read a bit more, I agree with GB and Tuna. I'm no expert on what's sport or not, but I figure if snooker is a sport and darts is a sport - and certainly if chess is a sport - then eSports can be sports. Certainly StarCraft! __________________ Something Completely Different

05-19-2012, 01:45 PM	#158 (permalink)
MoonlitSunshine Dat's Der Bunny! Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ireland Posts: 1,088	Almost everyone defending eSports in this thread seems to be focusing on the people who are giving no reasonable argument. I feel that I at least offered reasonable reason not to consider them sports: not because I think they aren't "worthy" or any ridiculous reason like that, but because it would create an unnecessary ambiguity. Hey, here's a similar idea, why don't we take all games involving a ball and call them all "Ball". They all share the common denominator of being played competitively and involving a ball, so that makes them the same, right? There's a reason why we call them Football and basketball and baseball. It allows us to make a distinction between different things. The simple truth is that, to me, it seems like those proposing such a name-merge are in some way embarrassed by the term "eSports" when in fact it's just a name, like the way email is different to mail, ecommerce is different to commerce, and electronics are different to... err, nevermind. The simple fact that they have been given the moniker eSports implies that they are already considered sports at least on a general level. Why is it so important that that "e" that is a valid identifier be removed? __________________ "I found it eventually, at the bottom of a locker in a disused laboratory, with a sign on the door saying "Beware of the Leopard". Ever thought of going into Advertising?" - Arthur Dent

05-19-2012, 02:07 PM	#159 (permalink)
Mrd00d Stoned and Jammin' Out Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Northern California; Eugene, OR; mobile Posts: 1,602	I think GB and Tuna have it down, and Moonlit makes a valid points. eSports seem to be a subset type of sport. __________________ Mrd00d's Last.fm

05-19-2012, 11:37 AM	#155 (permalink)
Paedantic Basterd Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 5,184	Whether or not you think it's silliness, you've got to admit that logically, GB and Tuna have it nailed.