Dirty

The real women's football league will never be watched... Nobody wants to see ugly women play a sport that men play a million times better.

I don't find the lingerie football league degrading really.. I just view it as an opportunity for sexy girls to make a good amount of money without really doing that much. When you're that beautiful, you are selling your sex appeal. That's why there are models. They aren't embarrassed by their bodies that they've worked hard on.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

No, Models are a trick to sell non-sex through the means of exploiting the non-openness of sexuality in modern culture, and association people have with their own frustrations. There can and is some art in modeling(and art modeling can be quite awesome if creativity is applied) but in most cases it's more exploitive, and frankly extremely dishonest, than anything. Maybe that's just my personal disdain for commercial society, though.

Plus, the mention of this being legit dangerous is another issue. I mean, I don't know, I don't find anything sexually appealing about the concept. I mean, for me the problem isn't objectifying it's indirectness.

If you want to watch porn, watch porn. Porn is good. Porn is natural. Porn is what it is. You watch it, and masturbate. It's a good way to release tension. For me, that's perfectly normal from a male/female perspective as healthy activity. Not to say porn isn't exploitive, it's just... it is what it is, and you can take it for that.

This whole "I'm to insecure to watch porn, or admit it, so I'll watch something sexual that's obscured with some gimmick to make it seem more tasteful fun." is what bothers me. I already think the whole "beer and football... yeah, cause I'm a dude... man power!" attitude is silly enough but having to adhere to this whole zombie-clone "football and tits... that's like the man power dream! Go dude stuff!" is just another means for people trying to sell you things to exploit your insecurities.

After all, You have access to free porn of varying quality and endless lack of discrimination for your weird fetishes in full length. Free porn which is actually directly sex not some bizarre very vaguely sexual fetish act that loosely resembles a supposedly "required" cultural staple as football/. An act to preserve a less non-comformist male identity, therefore not stick your head out, and have to deal with your unique sexual identity in public where you may face the scrutiny of others...

Or just go out and get laid but eh...

Thrice

Are you a woman? Most men just like football and beer. Its called testosterone and its naturally occurring.

I didn't think broads playing football would cause such a fuss. I believe that 95% of the folk in this thread have not even sat down and checked this out, yet still run their mouths about the exploitation of the sexual appeal of woman. Well, woman figured out just by having tits they can make money. It is surprisingly good. Aside from the sexual appeal, these girls go at it, and hard. Check out "tank" I think she plays for Cleveland. She is a modern day female Jerome The Bus Bettis.

This thread went to **** after the first post

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Lew Harrison, who looked like an anarchist with his red eyes and fierce black beard, had been writing furiously in one corner of the room. "That's good—happiness by the kilowatt," he said. "Buy your happiness the way you buy light."

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Eh, I'm just one of those men I guess who finds football dreadfully boring. I mean, maybe it's a natural outlet for that inner violence, but I think I found better ones.

I just don't get the point of this. If you cant let in big, nasty, ugly bitches who would knock most of these very cute, yet frankly anorectic, ladies five stands into the audience, then it's not really a sport. I am dead honest when I'd like to women on TV who are appreciated for more than good looks. Then again, I'd like to see a general curbing of the consumerist narcissism that forces 14 year old girls to starve themselves to death for acceptance, but what are you going to do?

Yet, seeming the general consensus is that it's not a particularly enticing activity watching women mutilate each other half naked. What I'm saying though has nothing to do with liking football or not liking football. It's the fact this is a random pasting together of two "man" things in order to appeal to the "poker buddy" crowd.

Then again, I like ranting and creating philosophical arguments from concepts that were obviously not intended to create them. Personal vice, I think.

VEGANGELICA

Oh, I'm one of the 5% who checked out the website and videos about the Lingerie League, Thrice. I documentated how the viewers' taste for scantily clad women leads to unnecessary injuries of the women, which is one reason I find the Lingerie League degrading.

There's nothing wrong with women playing football. I don't find anything bad about the International Women's Football League (IWFL), where they play contact American football with regular uniforms and teams...other than my usual complaints about American football, which I dislike because it has unnecessary collisions and tackling that hurt people.

I'm surprised you thought your thread topic wouldn't cause a fuss. You knew it was only a matter of time until I noticed it!

I see the Lingerie League as a weird combination of sexuality and violence in which some people put themselves at risk, and are encouraged to do so, to get others off. Sex often seems to be about people using others for their own pleasure without caring for them, and I don't like that or social activities like the Lingerie League that glorify this dynamic.

I also agree with you that the whole beer and football-loving plus lets-see-how-many-women-I-can-oogle stereotypical image that men seem to be pressed into is silly...as if beer and football and womanizing make someone a man. However, some men (and women) really do seem to relish the combination.

Do you think they're trying to make up for their insecurities ("I'm weak! I'm not a man!") or do you think they are just genuinely giving in to their urges ("Sex! Violence! Yee-haw!")?

I hadn't thought of the indirectness of the sexuality in the Lingerie League as being an issue, mostly because when I watch the promo videos the sexuality seems pretty darn direct.

Making philosophical arguments about some social activity isn't a personal vice at all, Skaligojurah...it's called sociology!

I agree football and contact sports are an outlet for inner violence...and I don't feel there is anything wrong with inner violence (I've got my share)...but I DO feel it is wrong when people hurt themselves or others physically as they let out their inner violence.

And, frankly, I don't know if football really lets out violence--I think it just exacerbates and strengthens it. The feeling that I get from this thread is that there are quite a few people who *do* find it enticing to watch women mutilate each other half naked. Their response isn't much different from the accounts I hear of people cheering when a man in football gets bashed to the ground and is writhing in pain.

As with your example of the 14-year-olds girls encouraged to get super skinny for acceptance, I also don't like the Lingerie League because in it I feel the people are debasing themselves for acceptance and approval by others. I can feel this when I watch the bikini-clad women playing...a sinking feeling in the pit of my stomach that these Lingerie League women, for whatever social reasons, are willing to skin themselves up and pound on each other ultimately for the sake of the viewers.

If they did this for free, just for fun, with no one watching and paying, then I'd have no problem with the Lingerie League. But I would wonder why they don't play football with uniforms on to actually help protect themselves from the abrasions I showed earlier.

And back to Urban's example of women being scantily clad in bars. I have no problem with people dressing up sexily if they want to. But if people in the bar then encouraged a woman to be dragged across the rough wooden floor on her exposed midriff, and she, eager to please and get paid for it, agreed...you BET I'd have a problem with that.

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Urban Hat€monger ?

Why?

If she's in a bar then she's obviously old enough to make her own decisions. You can't possibly know the reason as to why she's doing it.

Maybe she finds it funny
Maybe she's doing it because she has a sick child
Maybe she gets a kick out of it
Maybe it's desperation
Maybe she's the sort of person willing to do anything for a bet.
Maybe she's an exhibitionist

You say your not judging the people that are doing it but you are because you are forcing your own morality onto them and assuming that they're being exploited. The truth is you couldn't possibly know if they are being exploited unless you asked them.

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VEGANGELICA

My example of people dragging a woman with a bare midriff across a rough wooden bar floor, which presumably rips up her skin just like the turf in the Lingerie League rips up the skin of football players wearing bikinis, is to show how both situations physically HURT someone.

I don't want people to physically hurt themselves, whether the person wants to be physically hurt or not. You are right that this is part of my morality. If someone is willing to be physically harmed for money, I don't feel that is a good thing. I'm not going to support it or encourage it. I don't blame the person being dragged. I blame the people in the bar who encourage her to do something to hurt herself. I judge the onlookers and the perpetrators, Urban, not the woman herself.

So, my judging is actually far wider and deeper than you suggest.

If the bar woman is letting people do this to her because she is desperate or has a sick child, I'm not just going to stand by and let her get hurt. I'd HELP her. And yes, I would judge a person, and harshly, who sits by and gets pleasure from watching someone else suffer.

If the bar woman just lets herself be dragged for kicks and *likes* getting her skin ripped up and bloody while being dragged through the stale beer and dirt, then I still would not encourage her to do this. I would tell the people doing it to stop. Yes, you are right, that is me placing my moral value judgements on someone else.

People have the legal right (which I agree with) to decide if they want to harm themselves or be harmed...even kill themselves...but that doesn't mean I will support them doing this.

I agree it is good to ask people if they feel they are being exploited. Have all the Lingerie League women been asked if they feel they are being exploited? Can we assume if someone looks happy that she is? If I see someone in a situation that my judgement says is exploitation, I won't just assume that she necessarily enjoys it.

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Thrice

I guess you have to have a set to appreciate such a great thing. I guess I'm just a pretty typical guy. I get off drinking beer, watching football, and eye ****ing women. Its completely a gimmick, that is making money by combining three things that most men enjoy. I don't think it is degrading at all. Women unlike Erica, enjoy flaunting their goods in order to get what they want. Its how girls that graduated high school with looks and sub par GPA get bread. Im sure if the league gave them the option to put on more clothes and earn less money, they would remain bare assed with a fatter paycheck. If they dont like it thy can go work at Hooters and make a lot less money. I don't know what is wrong with a half decent investment by a company targeting such a large group.

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Lew Harrison, who looked like an anarchist with his red eyes and fierce black beard, had been writing furiously in one corner of the room. "That's good—happiness by the kilowatt," he said. "Buy your happiness the way you buy light."

Thrice

I guess you have to have a set to appreciate such a great thing. I guess I'm just a pretty typical guy. I get off drinking beer, watching football, and eye ****ing women. Its completely a gimmick, that is making money by combining three things that most men enjoy. I don't think it is degrading at all. Women unlike Erica, enjoy flaunting their goods in order to get what they want. Its how girls that graduated high school with looks and sub par GPA get bread. Im sure if the league gave them the option to put on more clothes and earn less money, they would remain bare assed with a fatter paycheck. If they dont like it thy can go work at Hooters and make a lot less money. I don't know what is wrong with a half decent investment targeting such a large group.

__________________


Lew Harrison, who looked like an anarchist with his red eyes and fierce black beard, had been writing furiously in one corner of the room. "That's good—happiness by the kilowatt," he said. "Buy your happiness the way you buy light."