VEGANGELICA

The point is that the Independent Women's Football League (IWFL) isn't *trying* to turn anyone on like the Lingerie League women are. The IWFL athletes are simply people playing a sport they love to play. I wouldn't expect watching a sport...whether one with female or male athletes...to be a turn-on, anticipation.

The IWFL certainly has some fans, so I disagree with your statement that it "will never be watched," since that is false already.

Also, your perspective that no one wants to see "ugly" women play a sport is odd, because people who really love and respect and understand sports don't watch them because someone is considered beautiful or not...they watch them to see people overcoming obstacles through hard work and skill, within their skill range. That's my view, at least. Sports are about developing your personal athletic skills to the best of your ability. Winning is really a secondary issue, I feel.

Example: if a 7 foot tall man can dunk a ball in a basketball hoop all the time, I'm not too impressed. If a 5 foot tall woman makes a slam dunk sometimes...THAT impresses me.

The Lingerie Football League is no more degrading than being a pin-up poster and having people not care about anything other than your appearance.

I definitely find it degrading that the Lingerie Football League women are encouraged not to protect their skin, because the lack of jerseys increases the chance of skin abrasion and damage during tackling and skids on the turf:



And here's a good quote from a mom of one of the Lingerie League's players:The Lingerie League, not degrading toward women? Ha!

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Urban Hat€monger ?

No worse than what I can see in any bar on a Saturday night.

Anyway it's no more degrading that working some shitty job for as little pay as some employer can get away with paying.

Get some perspective, grown consenting women running around on a field in their underwear and getting paid for it is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

Can we get away from this extremely tedious 'woman should be precious flowers that should never be exploited or lusted after' fallacy and concentrate on some real issues instead that benefit everybody.

Thanks.

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Dirty

Yeah, that was a pretty obvious non-literal statement by me. Of course I didn't mean literally 0 people have ever watched it. But most people don't even know it exists. Most people couldn't even name a team. I bet not one person I have ever met even knows the league exists.

Uhhh... yeah. Call me up when that 5 foot woman dunks in one in your dreams.

Basically I view these women as people who are very athletic but not quite good enough to play a professional sport or be in the Olympics...Women who also happen to be sexy as hell... Who get to make a lot of money and still play football against other athletic girls. I just don't really see anything wrong with it. It's every person's choice whether something is degrading. These girls choose to play, knowing they are selling their sex appeal... They are comfortable with their bodies, they know they are hott, why not make some good money off of it?

VEGANGELICA

Since the thread topic is about the Lingerie Football League and what we think about it, Urban, I suppose you could get away from this topic...but that would mean you wouldn't come into this thread!

I agree women are very strong and are not "precious flowers" any more than any person is a precious flower, but I feel the issue of exploiting people isn't tedious at all. I feel it is very important. For example, people shouldn't have to work at some ****ty job for as little pay as some employer can get away with paying. That's an important issue. If like you say the Lingerie League Football is about as degrading as people being paid too little, then that means it is also an issue worthy of thought.

The issue is that grown consenting women might prefer to run around on a field playing football getting paid a lot for it without having to get cut up due to being told in their contracts to wear skimpy uniforms. The issue is that society doesn't seem to support women athletes as much as male athletes, and so women have fewer opportunities to make big bucks in athletics like men do without resorting to sexual tactics.

What *do* you feel are some real issues that benefit everybody? And if some issue benefits primarily women, why shouldn't that matter?

Anyway, I think all people are precious flowers. And there is nothing wrong with lusting. But when lust overtakes all other emotions, then I feel it probably is a problem...emotions like basic compassion for the women on the field getting skinned up because some men and women will pay to see that.

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crash_override

Urban is just mad that there's no Lingerie Soccer League...















































With men.

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My MB music journal

VEGANGELICA

Maybe he's mad because he tried out but couldn't make it!

(Ha ha. No...I think he could make it. I'm just joking)

Look! This might be Urban's Lingerie Soccer League tryout video!

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Urban Hat€monger ?

I'd only be interested if you were in it big boy

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Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

No, Models are a trick to sell non-sex through the means of exploiting the non-openness of sexuality in modern culture, and association people have with their own frustrations. There can and is some art in modeling(and art modeling can be quite awesome if creativity is applied) but in most cases it's more exploitive, and frankly extremely dishonest, than anything. Maybe that's just my personal disdain for commercial society, though.

Plus, the mention of this being legit dangerous is another issue. I mean, I don't know, I don't find anything sexually appealing about the concept. I mean, for me the problem isn't objectifying it's indirectness.

If you want to watch porn, watch porn. Porn is good. Porn is natural. Porn is what it is. You watch it, and masturbate. It's a good way to release tension. For me, that's perfectly normal from a male/female perspective as healthy activity. Not to say porn isn't exploitive, it's just... it is what it is, and you can take it for that.

This whole "I'm to insecure to watch porn, or admit it, so I'll watch something sexual that's obscured with some gimmick to make it seem more tasteful fun." is what bothers me. I already think the whole "beer and football... yeah, cause I'm a dude... man power!" attitude is silly enough but having to adhere to this whole zombie-clone "football and tits... that's like the man power dream! Go dude stuff!" is just another means for people trying to sell you things to exploit your insecurities.

After all, You have access to free porn of varying quality and endless lack of discrimination for your weird fetishes in full length. Free porn which is actually directly sex not some bizarre very vaguely sexual fetish act that loosely resembles a supposedly "required" cultural staple as football/. An act to preserve a less non-comformist male identity, therefore not stick your head out, and have to deal with your unique sexual identity in public where you may face the scrutiny of others...

Or just go out and get laid but eh...

Thrice

Are you a woman? Most men just like football and beer. Its called testosterone and its naturally occurring.

I didn't think broads playing football would cause such a fuss. I believe that 95% of the folk in this thread have not even sat down and checked this out, yet still run their mouths about the exploitation of the sexual appeal of woman. Well, woman figured out just by having tits they can make money. It is surprisingly good. Aside from the sexual appeal, these girls go at it, and hard. Check out "tank" I think she plays for Cleveland. She is a modern day female Jerome The Bus Bettis.

This thread went to **** after the first post

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Lew Harrison, who looked like an anarchist with his red eyes and fierce black beard, had been writing furiously in one corner of the room. "That's good—happiness by the kilowatt," he said. "Buy your happiness the way you buy light."

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Eh, I'm just one of those men I guess who finds football dreadfully boring. I mean, maybe it's a natural outlet for that inner violence, but I think I found better ones.

I just don't get the point of this. If you cant let in big, nasty, ugly bitches who would knock most of these very cute, yet frankly anorectic, ladies five stands into the audience, then it's not really a sport. I am dead honest when I'd like to women on TV who are appreciated for more than good looks. Then again, I'd like to see a general curbing of the consumerist narcissism that forces 14 year old girls to starve themselves to death for acceptance, but what are you going to do?

Yet, seeming the general consensus is that it's not a particularly enticing activity watching women mutilate each other half naked. What I'm saying though has nothing to do with liking football or not liking football. It's the fact this is a random pasting together of two "man" things in order to appeal to the "poker buddy" crowd.

Then again, I like ranting and creating philosophical arguments from concepts that were obviously not intended to create them. Personal vice, I think.