NHL Thread

[Ninetales]

Originally Posted by Thom Yorke

Marchand's having a great year but split the votes? That would be similar to Panarin getting Hart votes. This isn't a Washington situation where you have multiple players really close in play. There's a clear top dog.

And that's not even to mention that Kane has the likely Vezina winner on his team.

No, it's not. Marchand is 3rd in goals this year. I'd agree Bergeron is a better player, but Marchand is having himself a really great year too. And he's been a very good player for a while, jury is still out on how much Panarin is being carried by Kane. And the difference between Kane's and Panarin's season is miles wider than Bergeron to Marchand's

I'd guess Holtby wins Vezina, but Crawford is quietly having a crazy good year too. Would still stand by Karlsson for MVP but yeah wont happen probably.

[Thom Yorke]

Originally Posted by Ninetales

No, it's not. Marchand is 3rd in goals this year. I'd agree Bergeron is a better player, but Marchand is having himself a really great year too. And he's been a very good player for a while, jury is still out on how much Panarin is being carried by Kane. And the difference between Kane's and Panarin's season is miles wider than Bergeron to Marchand's

I'd guess Holtby wins Vezina, but Crawford is quietly having a crazy good year too. Would still stand by Karlsson for MVP but yeah wont happen probably.

Of course he's having a great year, but you're also downplaying Panarin. Kane hasn't had a consistent linemate produce at a clip like this. Hell, he hasn't had a consistent linemate period since he played 60% of the time with Toews in his first 4 seasons. If you look at his most common linemates over the years it's all over the place. There are years where his most common linemate only plays with him less than a third of the time. Q is famous for mixing and matching; chances are if he's playing Kane with this Panarin kid that much, there's a great reason for doing so.

Now he's being used with Panarin nearly 80% of his TOI, along with the same PP unit and it's a complete coincidence that Kane is thrashing his career highs? I get that Kane drives the bus, but if you're going to downplay Bergeron due to a linemate, I can do the same thing with Kane. Point is, both are the driving forces on their respective lines. Kane brings a lot more offense to the table, Bergeron brings a lot more of everything else.

Karlsson has been making Ottawa worse as of late, if anything. He's been awful when Ottawa needed him the most, only keeping afloat due a few performances against bottom-feeders. Ottawa was 3 points out of a wildcard spot at All-Star break, which is around the time that Karlsson started to teeter off. Look where they are now.

Let's look at a multi-point game for him the 10th though. Got a goal and an assist, congrats. Now let's look at how much he hurt his team elsewhere.

https://www.nhl.com/video/jagr-nets-...804/c-42422503

- Tries to do too much, turns it over. 3rd man back (as a D-man) on an odd-man rush.

https://www.nhl.com/video/huberdeau-...804/c-42426703

- Can't handle the dump in, then is weak in front of the net.

https://www.nhl.com/video/trochecks-...804/c-42430403

- Do I need to say anything?

That's 3 goals against with him being the clear player at fault for all of them. The multi-point night does not balance it out. And that's a "good" game too. Points on all of his team's goals. Bobby, here we come!

The guy puts up a ton of points and does it by taking chances D-men usually shouldn't be taking. He's an unmitigated disaster when it comes to playing defense, or at least taking on the responsibilities that go along with playing defense. If that's your MVP, I don't know what to say. But that 4 point game against Toronto, right?

I don't get the Holtby love (at least as it relates to the Vezina). Guy starts off on fire from an individual standpoint and then can do no wrong for the rest of the season even though his individual performance has fallen off considerably. Crawford has him in almost every number you want to look at. The argument for Holtby is essentially that he has a better offense in front of him, which has led to 6 more wins.