NBA thread

[Son of JayJamJah]

Originally Posted by zzz

Thank you for your baseless claims JJJ, oh wise and powerful senior citizen.

Blaming it on the officiating is completely unproductive and isn't really debatable. Do you have proof they are cheating? I'd love to see it (and please, no Tim Donaghy, the guy is GONE). I get tired of people always 1. assuming the worst in people with assumptions and 2. assuming there is always a scandal/conspiracy to be found.

I will agree LeBron is a slightly better all-around player than Kobe. Guaranteeing Cleveland will win a title is just stupid. They got manhandled in the second half of last night's game by the Magic, who were only behind because they had a terrible first half.

Lebron is not slightly better, he is significantly better and yes Cleveland will win the title.

Of course officials cheat, Michael Franzis (sp?) a former Mobster wrote a book and has done several interviews detailing how the Mob has fixed sports (not outcomes as much as lines) since the 1950's.

Donaghy is more proof He admitted and pegged several other officials who cheated to authorities. Nice though, "don't mention the one guy who disproves my point" that works well when debating.

The point of my post is that there are a million interesting things to talk about in basketball and arguing over which team gets a biased whistle is stupid. 82games.com and basketball prospectus have us on the verge of a statisical revolution

The Aforementioned King James is one of the greatest young players ever and on track to break almost every major NBA record, Young stars litter the league, and on and on and on.

I won't bother to get into last nights Cleveland\Orlando game except to say I guarantee the Magic don't shoot that good in a half again all series and that Cleveland will win in five or six. In 1993, the Suns were the NBA's best team and were pushed to five in round one by the Warriors and seven in round three by a young Sonics team which got punked in round one the following year. Young teams have a bad half once in awhile, his team mates got caught watching him, he won't allow that to happen again.

[midnight rain]

Originally Posted by dac

Here are three largely factual Celtics facts:

•They never lost a Game 7 at Boston Garden on a Sunday until this year.

•There was not a traveling call on a Celtic in the postseason between 1957 and 1986.

•In Game 5 against the Bulls last month, Ray Allen became the first Celtic to foul out of a playoff contest since Satch Sanders in 1966.

Hmm, I read that article that you C&Ped from and while he calls them facts, I'm curious as to where he got them. He also has a pretty obvious prejudice, but nevermind that.

That Game 7 thing I believe though, they were the real deal in their time. And as much as I think the Celtics are ****s, I don't call into question their legitimacy. I just flat out ****ing hate them

[Son of JayJamJah]

Originally Posted by dac

Here are three largely factual Celtics facts:

•They never lost a Game 7 at Boston Garden on a Sunday until this year.

•There was not a traveling call on a Celtic in the postseason between 1957 and 1986.

•In Game 5 against the Bulls last month, Ray Allen became the first Celtic to foul out of a playoff contest since Satch Sanders in 1966.

I'm not sure what any of this means to you, but it's a lot of unrelated nonsense to me, and #2 has to be incorrect, though how can I prove it.

[midnight rain]

Originally Posted by JayJamJah

Lebron is not slightly better, he is significantly better and yes Cleveland will win the title.

No and maybe.

Of course officials cheat, Michael Franzis (sp?) a former Mobster wrote a book and has done several interviews detailing how the Mob has fixed sports (not outcomes as much as lines) since the 1950's.

Donaghy is more proof He admitted and pegged several other officials who cheated to authorities. Nice though, "don't mention the one guy who disproves my point" that works well when debating.

The point of my post is that there are a million interesting things to talk about in basketball and arguing over which team gets a biased whistle is stupid. 82games.com and basketball prospectus have us on the verge of a statisical revolution

I 100% agree, I've been fighting for the abolishment of ref complaining in this thread since the beginning. The thing that bothers me about refs is how easily they call fouls, not which teams they favor. I think it disrupts the game too often.

The Aforementioned King James is one of the greatest young players ever and on track to break almost every major NBA record, Young stars litter the league, and on and on and on.

No doubt, but he hasn't reached the point of being miles ahead of Kobe either. And stats don't mean everything, when you're on a more well rounded teams your stats are naturally not going to look as impressive because you don't need to have big games night in and night out anyways.

I won't bother to get into last nights Cleveland\Orlando game except to say I guarantee the Magic don't shoot that good in a half again all series and that Cleveland will win in five or six.

Last series against the Celts and their whole NBA season says your wrong. The Cavs simply don't have the matchups to counter players like Turkoglu or Howard. I'm saying Magic will win this series (as I said earlier in this thread).

In 1993, the Suns were the NBA's best team and were pushed to five in round one by the Warriors and seven in round three by a young Sonics team which got punked in round one the following year. Young teams have a bad half once in awhile, his team mates got caught watching him, he won't allow that to happen again.

The Cavs have faced little adversity in the playoffs until now. It's pretty hard to say they're the best team if you have little to go on besides the regular season (which isn't indicative of enough)

[midnight rain]

Originally Posted by JayJamJah

I'm not sure what any of this means to you, but it's a lot of unrelated nonsense to me, and #2 has to be incorrect, though how can I prove it.

Yeah, as far as I know travels fall under the turnover category, so unless that guy went through 1000+ games to prove his point, I don't see how he got his info.

[Son of JayJamJah]

Here's why I don't see Orlando as a threat:

Turk is their clutch guy and is awful in the clutch. I'll give he and Lewis credit for hitting huge shots last night, but that won't happen again based on their history as players.

Also Howard is a match-up problem (for everyone), but he can't beat Lebron on his own and isn't even their go-to-guy down the stretch.

The match-ups do favor Orlando, but Lebron counters all of that.

Why Lebron is way better then everyone:

Best Offensive player in the NBA, best defensive player in the NBA (finished second in the voting) and fastest player in the NBA. His clutch stats are unparalleled, he is the most unique and dominant physical player of any era excluding Wilt and Shaq and he's a guard.

When his jumper is on he is unstoppable. When it's not, you better hope his team mates aren't hitting or the refs aren't calling it close.

Every Cavs players except James was below their splits in game one, Howard, Turk and Lewis were all above theirs, that won't happen again.

Cleveland wins game two by double figures and the series in five, maybe six but I doubt it.

Of course I could be wrong, but i really doubt it this year.

[midnight rain]

Originally Posted by JayJamJah

Here's why I don't see Orlando as a threat:

Turk is their clutch guy and is awful in the clutch. I'll give he and Lewis credit for hitting huge shots last night, but that won't happen again based on their history as players.

Also Howard is a match-up problem (for everyone), but he can't beat Lebron on his own and isn't even their go-to-guy down the stretch.

The match-ups do favor Orlando, but Lebron counters all of that.

Why Lebron is way better then everyone:

Best Offensive player in the NBA, best defensive player in the NBA (finished second in the voting) and fastest player in the NBA. His clutch stats are unparalleled, he is the most unique and dominant physical player of any era excluding Wilt and Shaq and he's a guard.

When his jumper is on he is unstoppable. When it's not, you better hope his team mates aren't hitting or the refs aren't calling it close.

Every Cavs players except James was below their splits in game one, Howard, Turk and Lewis were all above theirs, that won't happen again.

Cleveland wins game two by double figures and the series in five, maybe six but I doubt it.

Of course I could be wrong, but i really doubt it this year.

I think you're letting fanyboyism (word?) get in the way of reasoning

Turk and Lewis have been playing consistently good in the playoffs so far, it wasn't some one-off. Take a gander at their statistics in the playoffs so far:

NBA.com : Rashard Lewis Info Page

NBA.com : Hedo Turkoglu Info Page

In fact, I'd go on to say last night wasn't even one of Turkoglu's better games. He was cold for a very long time and it took a while to get going.

LeBron is NOT the fastest player in the NBA, or even in this matchup, I don't know where you got that from because Rafer Alston is most definitely quicker.

LeBron also won't have the kind of game he had last night on every game this series, so we'll see if the other Cavs can step it up or not. Either way, I'm still with the Magic on this one.

[Son of JayJamJah]

LeBron can go for 40 whenever he wants don't kid yourself.

And Alston is not faster, Chris Paul called Lebron the fastest player in the game.

As for Turk and Lewis

Turk had a career high 14 assists last night and hit his made that three in the last two minutes when Lebron went under the screen. Turk shoots 24% from three in the final two minutes over the last three seasons.

Lewis is a 46% shooter this season, this playoffs and for his career last night he was over 70%

Here are Hedo and LBJ's 4th quarter numbers

Turkoglu .389 FG% .317 3-pt% 5.3 pts 41% of FG's assisted on 1.2 reb 1.1 ast
James .472 FG% .358 3-pt% 8.1 pts 23% of FG's assisted on 3.0 reb 2.6 ast

Howard never even gets the ball late his 4th quarter averages are as follows:

Howard .593 FG% .548 FT% 4.4 pts 54% of FG's assisted on 3.9 reb

Time will tell, but I'd be shocked if the Magic even had a chance to win more then one more game in this series. I can only think of 5 or 6 series in NBA history in the conference or NBA finals where the better team has not won, Cleveland is worlds better then Orlando.

Also I am a Pistons fan, so I don't have any bias towards Lebron, if anything I hate him for stealing an NBA finals from me.

[midnight rain]

I don't know if you've ever been told this, but basketball is a 5 man sport.

So far you have yet to mention a single other name on the Cavs team besides LeBron

I'm not bothering to debunk another post of yours. Even if the Magic do win, I can still see you being too stubborn to admit their the better team. I'll be more than ready to admit it if the Cavs close them out, but as of now I think it will be the Magic. Nothing we say will change the outcome, so I say we shut up and watch for something new to happen in the series

[Son of JayJamJah]

Originally Posted by zzz

I don't know if you've ever been told this, but basketball is a 5 man sport.

So far you have yet to mention a single other name on the Cavs team besides LeBron

I'm not bothering to debunk another post of yours. Even if the Magic do win, I can still see you being too stubborn to admit their the better team. I'll be more than ready to admit it if the Cavs close them out, but as of now I think it will be the Magic. Nothing we say will change the outcome, so I say we shut up and watch for something new to happen in the series

Basketball is a five man sport, but only the star or stars are relevant to who wins a title. Two teams in NBA history have won a title without an elite superstar as their clutch scorer; the 1978 Sonics and the 2004 Pistons, the Magic's superstar is not their go-to-guy. They have no chance.

If I am wrong, I'll admit it, I just know (based on 35 years of watching the sport) I won't be.

All I am saying to you is that your reasoning for why the MAgic will win has no precedent outside of the '04 finals of happening.