slappyjenkins

Ok folks this is hard for me. I'm proud of these but I know not everyone is gonna react with 100 percent positivity...you know sometimes when you have an ugly baby you just have an ugly baby, when people go 'EWWWWW what is that?' They are just being honest.

Well I need ugly baby honesty here. Tell me what you REALLY think. This will help me guage the reaction I would get and what things I might have to change to launch this terrifying venture.

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Here's the first selection of my poems...omg I'm weak in the knees....

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Thinking of you

I'll write a poem
I'll write a letter
I'll look them over
and send the better

I'll send the one
with the most heartfelt meaning
The sweetest words
and the warmest feelings
-----

---
Blue Eyes

I'll sit outside every night and look for you
in the sky, in the stars, in the face of the moon
I'll see you there in life's grandest mysteries
and think of you quite endlessly
I'll long for you
when the nights are still
I'll wake and look for you
I always will
I may love others
but never like I loved you
I'll hold my children
and hug them and love them
I hope their eyes are blue

---------------
Three Words

three little words
and what they mean to me
three little words
handed down through history
three little words
every guy tells his girl
three little words
heard all 'round the world
three little words
you might say in the park
three little words
you might say in the dark
three little words
you might say at the movies
three little words
I... want....boobies
-----

Love is good medicine

kisses kisses and warm wet wishes
for your nose your toes
your knees and elbows

hugs hugs and pharmacuetical drugs
for your uppers your downers
your infections and frowners
--

Untitled #29

Life is moving on
and I must move with it
Because life isn't what you
think or feel or say
its what you do
and how you live it
---------------------

---
paths that never meet

Winding winding winding
at times so close
but destined never to meet

There is a path made for you
And one made for me

Around and over and back and still
winding through the trees
and winding through the hills

Two seperate lives
going their seperate ways

Sharing only memories
If only for today

I think our paths meet
on the road up ahead
But they are once again
diverging instead

Maybe this is all we'll ever be
two seperate paths
that never quite meet
----
I'll love you from afar

As my life goes by I'll think of you
And wonder how you are...
I'll sit quietly and remember you
And love you from afar
---------

I know some of these are REALLY short, but this is how each poem revealed itself to me and I am always loathe to touch them after they've been born.

These are some of my babies, tell me what you think.

miinah-a-pun

Love all of them. Specially Blue eyes.

VEGANGELICA

Slappyjenkins, your analogy between a possibly ugly poem and an ugly baby made me think of that Seinfeld episode where everyone except the mother thinks the baby is horrifyingly ugly!


Seinfeld S05E21 The Hamptons - Jerry and Elaine finally get to see THE BABY - YouTube

In reality, I think that beauty really *is* in the eye of the beholder, especially when it comes to poetry.

I tend to like certain characteristics in poems (for example, I love rhyming, symbolism, and word play), just like I feel certain physical characteristics of babies are more appealing than others, but this doesn't mean there is anything *wrong* with the poem/baby.

With that said, I'll give you my feedback in italics below by telling you my exact thoughts that I had as I read each poem:

--------------

Thinking of you

I'll write a poem
I'll write a letter
I'll look them over
and send the better

I'll send the one
with the most heartfelt meaning
The sweetest words
and the warmest feelings
-----

^ This is a sweet little poem. My favorite lines are "I'll look them over and send the better" because I like the rhyming of letter/better and the expression of a universal desire to send your best representation of yourself to someone you care about because you want to please that person.

Overall, the poem sounds like something I might expect in a Hallmark card. Simple and sweet.

I think you could turn "feelings" to "feeling" without changing the poem's meaning, and doing so would allow you to gain a more perfect rhyme between meaning/feeling.

---

Blue Eyes

I'll sit outside every night and look for you
in the sky, in the stars, in the face of the moon
I'll see you there in life's grandest mysteries
and think of you quite endlessly
I'll long for you
when the nights are still
I'll wake and look for you
I always will
I may love others
but never like I loved you
I'll hold my children
and hug them and love them
I hope their eyes are blue

---------------

^ A beautiful short poem of adoration and yearning. My favorite line is "I'll see you there in life's grandest mysteries" because I relate to that experience of love. (I feel you could strengthen that line by removing the word, "there.") It reminds me of a quote about love that I like that says when you love someone the focus of your universe condenses down into that single person, and when you see that person, you sense the universe (and all its mysteries) within him or her.

Another quote I like about love is this one by Oscar Wilde: “Never love anyone who treats you like you're ordinary.”

And this one by Chuck Palahniuk: “If you love something set it free, but don't be surprised if it comes back with herpes.”



^ I thought you'd like that one.

Back to your poem, I am charmed by the idea of wishing your children have eyes that remind you of a person you love. This reminded me of how love for one person can increase appreciation of other people, too, because we are all made from the same fabric. Your poem makes me wonder why the relationship didn't continue.

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Three Words

three little words
and what they mean to me
three little words
handed down through history
three little words
every guy tells his girl
three little words
heard all 'round the world
three little words
you might say in the park
three little words
you might say in the dark
three little words
you might say at the movies
three little words
I... want....boobies
-----

^ No truer words have ever been spoken!

A cute poem. I *did* expect you to end with "I love you" (and I was hoping you wouldn't), so I was pleased by your amusing conclusion. This reminds me of one of my favorite love songs of all time:

Beach Boys -- "I'd Love Just Once to See You"


The Beach Boys - I'd Love Just Once to See You - YouTube

-----

Love is good medicine

kisses kisses and warm wet wishes
for your nose your toes
your knees and elbows

hugs hugs and pharmacuetical drugs
for your uppers your downers
your infections and frowners

----

^ That's also a very cute poem because you mix sweet sentiments with more realistic ones. Pharmaceutical drugs are great for loved ones in pain. My favorite drugs that I'm very glad scientists have created are hydrocodone, morphine (for general body pain), and gabapentin (for neuropathy, damage to peripheral nerves due to chemotherapy that causes excruciating pain).

^ "Love is good medicine" is my second favorite poem of the ones you posted, with "Blue Eyes" being my favorite.

----

Untitled #29

Life is moving on
and I must move with it
Because life isn't what you
think or feel or say
its what you do
and how you live it
---------------------

^ Interesting. For me, life is often more about what I think and feel and say, but I agree that taking action and actually doing activities are important. Just a couple days ago I wrote this to a cousin about living vs. thinking about life: "I'm kind of a 'prepare for the worst in the future' person, and so sometimes life seems like this long, slow train wreck waiting to happen. I have to remind myself to look out the windows, get off at the train stops for potty breaks, run through the meadows and scenery before the train gets going again, enjoy the dining car, etc., and not just think about the final destination!"

I feel that your poem is a statement of an emotional realization, rather like a journal entry. I would prefer more visual imagery and symbols in your poem. I'm thinking now of a short poem by Jim Morrison in which he vividly describes an outer experience of life as it reflects his inner state (below):

An appearance of the devil
on a Venice canal.
Running, I saw a Satan
or Satyr, moving beside
me, a fleshy shadow
of my secret mind. Running,
Knowing.

-- Jim Morrison

^ See how this poem includes references to Jim Morrison's exerior world of doing. I imagine Morrison in a boat floating down the Venice canal, while someone dressed like a devil is running alongside the canal and keeping up with him, reminding Morrison of his inner state, his secret mind. I miss similar references to the outside world in your short poem about living.

In comparison, your poem describes the inner state of being without many references in it to actually *doing* something. So, that's a layer of irony in the poem: your poem (about the importance of taking actions in life) describes something you are thinking and saying, rather than doing.

----

paths that never meet

Winding winding winding
at times so close
but destined never to meet

There is a path made for you
And one made for me

Around and over and back and still
winding through the trees
and winding through the hills

Two seperate lives
going their seperate ways

Sharing only memories
If only for today

I think our paths meet
on the road up ahead
But they are once again
diverging instead

Maybe this is all we'll ever be
two seperate paths
that never quite meet
----

I like the meaning of this poem more than the structure of it, because the words sound a little sing-songy to me, where the motions of the path become the main focus: "Around and over and back and still winding through the trees and winding through the hills." It reminds me of a children's book I love, "Bears in the Night," by the Berenstains...but I'm not sure if you want that child-like feel that I sense in the poem.

About the meaning: the poem suggests resignation that destiny determines the fate of a relationship even while the person with whom one is involved is alive.

I'm wondering if that sense of possible resignation removes one's own responsibility for the direction a relationship takes.

I feel that while a person is alive, the possibility for change and reconciliation always exists. I feel that destiny is not the cause of relationships breaking apart. Instead, I feel they break because one member (or both) feels or says, "I am not willing to live with you the way you are and with the way I feel when I am with you. I do not want to change how I respond, and I don't trust you to be able to change how you are."

So when I read your poem, the question I ask myself is how much free will a person has when deciding to separate from another. I think I would be angry if someone told me, "It is destiny that is making me not want to be with you." I'd want him or her to own up to her or his involvement in that decision.

---

I'll love you from afar

As my life goes by I'll think of you
And wonder how you are...
I'll sit quietly and remember you
And love you from afar
---------

^ I can imagine writing this expression of emotion as I try to make peace with not having someone in my life.

I feel this short poem, with a lovely sentiment, has a greeting card feeling again, which makes it sound very honest and uncomplicated but perhaps too simple to me.

I wrote a similar poem once about someone, but I made the poem more flowery. I'll type three stanzas of my poem below, because I think it is interesting to see the different way we chose to express the same emotion:

* * *

My love, you're far away now,
though we walk on this same earthly ground,
but our paths rarely cross so it's seldom
I see you around.

Your life is full and fulfilling
with people you love faithfully
and I know your devotion to them is
just as it should be.

If ever you're feeling lonely
as you wake in life's sweet embrace,
know my love like the sunlight around you
still kisses your face.

* * *

Your honoring of your initial creative impulse is lovely and interesting to me. Thank you for sharing your babies!

My relationship with my poem-babies is entirely different: I always alter poems after I've written them. I put them aside, reconsider them later (days, months, even years later), and I frequently tinker with or radically change poems until they are in a form that satisfies me.

I want to get more playful with my own writing so that it feels more spontaneous and chaotic. Reading about your style of writing, slappyjenkins, reminds me of my goal to be more spontaneous and playful with my own!

__________________

slappyjenkins

Vegangelica....you have done me a great great service. Your lengthy review, critique and exchange is a rare and special thing that most non-artists/non-writers do not realize is so very important. Most people look at your work and go 'yeah that's good' or 'meh, I don't like that one'...and you are left where you was just a second ago, on your own with no real feedback.

I have been looking through your collection thread. It is daunting to even begin to critique you. Where my lines maybe 3 to 5 words long and my entire poems might be a few lines, yours may be several words long and many many lines to completion.

But in every one of your poems I feel that critical thinking that makes you so very special in my eyes. Your emotions are never just 'oh well I'm sad', they are more likely to come across as 'I am sad....and this is why, in detail'. I hope that comes across as a compliment. Most writers like myself are simply expressive, maybe on too simple of a level. I'll just use a line like 'I loved you yesterday', and let it imply an infinite number of things or let YOU decide what it means to you. I think if I went back over my poetry, analyzed it, and then started to make changes it would certainly lengthen them out if nothing else. But the reason I have not done that is I can't describe that feeling of having something seem like it came out of nowhere and transferred itself through my hand to paper(or word pad) --and you know that process, being a writer yourself. Every single one of these little poems is a reflection of something that was happening to me at the time. I was put under extreme pressure and emotionally shat out these little guys. Or they shat themselves out. I can't even describe the process...I can remember for each of them that I was emotionally burdened by any millions of things that was hurting me, I would sit and go to this place(often with a cup of coffee and my ipod) where I was thinking of nothing else but how to rectify the situation or make the situation better, or even pondering WHY this was happening....and there the poem would be, as if in answer to what was going on. And sadly as you can see most of the time it was resignation. Not that I'm a quitter, but when you've put endless time, money, work and emotion into something and its only getting worse and worse, then you realize that it's not really over....it simply had never begun. I learned that you can't make someone love you, you can't buy their love, and you can't control what another person does. If they choose to hurt you or belittle you or simply can not return your feelings, then it was most likely time to move on ages ago. I've said this to a couple of girls...'We had something really special from the moment we met. But the only way to have kept it special was probably by day three for one us to come right up to the other, shake their hand, give them a hug, and say 'I'm outta here while it's perfect''. That's the only way we'd have that perfect memory of them. There's only one girl that I think fondly of in that complete missing/longing way. Her name is Cindy. We had a friendship/love affair when we were in our teens. Her family moved away, FAR AWAY. And we just didn't write enough or call enough to keep it alive and we lost touch. We both turned into different people and went our seperate ways. BUT, the point is our relationship ended in a 'perfect state'...we loved each other as best friends, we desired each other as lovers, we never had a really huge fight. Our fights were the silliest things ever and we'd often end them by laughing at each other for getting mad at something. That's when you know you really love someone. When you get mad and they get mad, and all of a sudden instead of killing each other you start to laugh and the other person laughs and you kiss or hug or 'whatever' and it is truly forgiven. It's never brought up again, it's never used against you. That to me this is true love and growing together, this is freedom of your emotional love, and I've only had it with one person. Everyone else it's been a nightmare! Tiny things turn into giagantic battles that can rage for days. And even when the argument is over things are brought up days, weeks, sometimes years later. And you just feel this overwhelming sense of 'Eh, I give up.'

I know you've touch on relationship problems with things like OCD. That's when you know you're in a really bad relationship, when you try to confront that other person and tell them 'hey, you are too high strung, you're controlling, you hold onto things forever, I don't feel we can even move forward in any way.' And they shoot right back at you - 'what are you talking about? You're the crazy one here! You're always trying to control everything I do and you argue with me for nothing and I hate you!'

Fingers are pointing in every direction but back on themselves. That to me is insanity. This is the truth for any relationship...there are at least two sides to every story. I look back and I realize that yeah I was probably an ass in some of those, but I swear there were times I felt I struggled to move mountains to help that other person.... bought them cars, got them back in school, fixed their teeth, let them cry on my shoulder for days about any old thing, and here they are ****ing me over some way...and in the end the finger is pointed back at me....SIGH...it's rough out here in the bad old world...

Anyway if you were interested in my process or what was behind each of these poems I'll break it down as best as I can remember...

slappyjenkins

*oh the ugly baby clip....hilarious to no end....

here is what I was going through when each of these came out...

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Thinking of you *A good friend of mine had just graduated, was on her way to realizing her dream of being an oceanographer/marine biologist, and her first stop...Kroatia...don't ask me why lol, but we decided to be pen pals...and this little hall mark of a thing popped out and I thought it was too cute to lose
I'll write a poem
I'll write a letter
I'll look them over
and send the better

I'll send the one
with the most heartfelt meaning
The sweetest words
and the warmest feeling

hmm about the S, let's try it that way and see how it sits....-----

---
Blue Eyes - everyone likes this one, you ever been in one of those relationships where it just seems you can not get over the hump? You like everything about the person and you'd love to make that 'connection'. But you can feel things drifting apart and you know if you keep drifting you'll wake up one day on either side of a huge chasm...this was that relationship and this is how I felt about it...I'll just think about you, but I know its over and will never be again....the line 'wake and look for you' was something very personal and symbolic...she was away for business for a few days and I woke up startled one night and for some reason I really had that feeling of 'looking for her' like she should have been right next to me, I had even almost started talking to her before I fully woke and realized she wasn't there, well she called me from her hotel in Chicago about two minutes later and said she had just woke up 'looking for me'...needless to say that line of the poem was really special to both of us

I'll sit outside every night and look for you
in the sky, in the stars, in the face of the moon
I'll see you in life's grandest mysteries ..hmmm let's see how that goes
and think of you quite endlessly
I'll long for you
when the nights are still
I'll wake and look for you
I always will
I may love others
but never like I loved you
I'll hold my children
and hug them and love them
I hope their eyes are blue you guessed it...her eyes were blue
---------------
Three Words here i was challenged to write a love poem. Something from the heart. And I as I sat down and thought and thought, I had that overwhelming feeling of 'If I write another f**ing 'I LOVE YOU' poem I'm gonna be a sell out. What would any guy truthfully say if he just blurted out what he wanted.

three little words
and what they mean to me
three little words
handed down through history
three little words
every guy tells his girl
three little words
heard all 'round the world
three little words
you might say in the park
three little words
you might say in the dark
three little words
you might say at the movies
three little words
I... want....boobies
-----

Love is good medicine -- my very good friend, (not quite a girlfriend, even though we fooled around on occasion, yeah don't ask me how that works, we're animals), was very sick and I took of from work for two days to sit with her...and I did silly things like hand puppets and jokes to make her laugh and I held her while she was shaking and feverish, and I got cold towels and tylenol for her, and one thing I did was write this silly poem which she loved...and guess what she did later...at a point where it looked like we might be something she got involved with another guy...invited me to McDonalds of all places to tell me...I thought it was an innocent lunch and she starts to break out with 'I've met someone'...my thought to this day is, ok that's cool, it's your life, but...'You had to tell me at McDonald's????'

kisses kisses and warm wet wishes These lines represented my feelings and actions
for your nose your toes
your knees and elbows

hugs hugs and pharmacuetical drugs These lines represented the tylenol and other pills
for your uppers your downers
your infections and frowners

It made her happy while she was sick. That's all that matters.
--

Untitled #29 Never titled this one, and the title that stuck was just some random number, there are no Untitled 1-28 to go along with this....this poem popped out of me while thinking really hard about what to do in a relationship....it wasn't going anywhere. We kept TALKING about what we'd do together, but she would never make that comittment. But she would TALK and TALK and TALK. And my subconcious response to that was this poem. Because I do think talking is important, I do think that feeling and pondering is important. I'm not downplaying that, but at some point you have to DO something or everything else is just words. Well when push came to shove and I started to pull away she didn't stop me, so I saw what I feared, that she was full of dookie.

Life is moving on
and I must move with it
Because life isn't what you
think or feel or say feelings and words ARE importantits what you do but sometimes backing those thoughts are words are more importantand how you live it and to me this is the true indication of how you live your life and represent yourself to the world
---------------------

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paths that never meet --this one is my personal favorite. I was in a serious relationship with a girl, but she was hung up on TWO other guys from her past, and she just ran me into the ground with it. So I wrote this while we were still TOGETHER, we broke up right after, but I think the poem got my feelings across better than any conversation ever could have...the entire thing represents exactly what it seems...that feeling of never connecting, paths never crossing, you are always over there and I'm always over here...

Winding winding winding
at times so close
but destined never to meet

There is a path made for you
And one made for me

Around and over and back and still
winding through the trees
and winding through the hills

Two seperate lives
going their seperate ways

Sharing only memories
If only for today

I think our paths meet
on the road up ahead
But they are once again
diverging instead

Maybe this is all we'll ever be
two seperate paths
that never quite meet
----
I'll love you from afar - this just randomly spawned itself in my mind while I was thinking about my life..I thought about all the wasted years of my life and how folks had let me down, and I started missing people, but not missing them but missing what they could have been...so the poem has a hidden meaning...its not that you are AFAR, or I'm resigned that its over...the poem means 'As my life goes on I'll think of what you COULD HAVE BEEN and I'll miss that, because what you turned out to be was really really toxic and corrosive in my life -- the AFAR is more of a personal choice...you are over there and I am not going near you' -- and I know instantly when people see this they think, aww this is so cute, I like it because people with differing life experience can interpret it in different ways, as I have done

As my life goes by I'll think of you
And wonder how you are...
I'll sit quietly and remember you
And love you from afar
---------

These selections of poems may indicate that I quit on people. It's not true. I've given all my time and energy, all my love...and never gotten it back in return. No one has ever fixed my teeth, bought me cars, lent me thousands of dollars, I've gone to see people in the hospital, sit with them for days while they were sick. I was sick sometimes. I had the flu....the REAL flu....for five days I crawled around my house sipping juice and trying to CRAWL to the toilet. No one was there with me.

I guess I'm tired of moving mountains in the physical world and the emotional world and having the misfortune of being involved with people who wouldn't even spit on me if I was on fire. I deserve respect. I deserve someone to move mountains for me.

^See that, that's where some of those lines come from.

slappyjenkins

It's not even that its funny, it's true! Maybe that's why I'm so resigned when a relationship is over. If I didn't want to deal with your baggage and diseases when we were together why would I want to deal with you after 5 more dudes and possibly 3 chicks after you've experimented.

That is a hilarious line that winds up being truthfully profound.

Face

All of them became a sing-song voice in my head, due to the rhythm in the lines.

The last one is the only one which was read in the "this is a poem" voice..in my head.

I don't know how this would help you, probably not at all.

slappyjenkins

Face, I enjoyed the feedback. It does help. The main reason to get other's opinions is simple...you, the reader, would be the target audience. If that's to make sales or to make a certain impact, that all comes from you.

The fact that my poems are more 'sing-song' that traditional poems is a nice compliment. I have said somewhere here in this thread before that I have always wanted to write songs anyway.

thank you so much face!

Oh on another note. I did not know how rewarding it would be to have other people look at my writing. My writing is very personal and only been given to the person it was meant for, to have others look at it and give their opinion is something special!

and hey Vegan, been thinking about what you said
This poem came out of me BECAUSE of the thinking and feeling and talking. All we did was talk talk talk talk, I finally got to a point where I was like we can talk, but we really should DO something eventually. I agree with the irony you take from the poem that in even making the statement that 'Life is what you do' can be taken as simply another set of words...you're still just saying and not doing...well that is true and not true at the same time. The poem for me was the point where I said all the talk is over and now I'm going to do something...which was to move out of the relationship and move on with my life. I took several actual steps in the real world that really changed what was going on in my mind mentally and in reality. The poem was a statement to her, that I gotta DO something, can't keep talking about what might have been or what might COULD be, there is the real world out there and I got to live in it.

VEGANGELICA

Slappyjenkins, I understand what you mean about appreciating in-depth feedback from fellow writers, people who immerse themselves in words and think carefully about how best to communicate with them.

Since you are new to sharing your poems in a public forum, I hoped you would enjoy my attention focused on them so that you could see how I would perceive your poems if they were mine. I love stepping into someone else's mind to gain that person's perspective, and so I imagined you would enjoy that experience, too.

I'm glad you are finding that sharing your poetry is rewarding!

Thank you for considering my lyrics and poetry. I feel you are very correct that am analytical and like details, so my lyrics tend to reflect that.

I thought I should mention that in my thread I have posted mostly lyrics and very few poems, which are usually quite different from my lyrics. So probably you have been viewing my lyrics, which *do* tend to be long. Perhaps I'll post a few more poems in my thread so you can see the difference between my lyrics and poems. Emotionally, I view my lyrics as being like my babies who are my creations yet are separate from me, and so I more willingly send them out into the world. My poems are like actual slices of myself, more introspective, and so I am more protective of them.

Writing you about this difference I feel exists between my lyrics and poetry reminds me that one of my goals is to merge my poetic and lyrical styles so that the distinction disappears. Perhaps our "meeting" will inspire me to make this shift in my songwriting.

Thank you also for sharing the "behind-the-scenes" stories that gave rise to all your poems! I enjoyed learning about the situations that squeezed you enough such that you were put under extreme pressure and, as you said, "emotionally shat out these little guys."

I'll comment about love and then about the poetry that results from it.

I agree with you that you can't make someone love you if a reasonable effort has not led that person to respond. You can't control other people's emotions, and sometimes neither can they. A song I love is Don Henley's "You Can't Make Love" because I feel it is so true:

lyrics: DON HENLEY - YOU CAN'T MAKE LOVE LYRICS
song: You Can't Make Love (Album Version) by Don Henley | Song | Free Music, Listen Now

Thank you for sharing about Cindy and the differences among your relationships you've had. I feel every relationship is unique because every person is unique, and so no two relationships feel alike. Sometimes, due to the limited number of people we meet in life, we simply don't meet many people with whom we have that ease, connection, and intensity that it sounds like you and Cindy had together. I would describe this person as someone with whom you can fairly easily reveal all aspects of yourself, and vice versa, and you still love each other.

Some people will never meet their Cindy. Those of us who do, even for a short while, are very lucky. Meeting someone with whom you can let out anger and frustration...be emotionally authentic...yet also find peaceful resolution and laugh about the issues together is wonderful. My experience is that no relationship is perfect, but it is definitely easier to get close to one's vision of ideal with some people than with others.

Now about poetry: I understand how poems can seem to have shat themselves out. Maybe that's why we call it "pooetry."

Here's the thing I've been wanting to say to you about poetry that I feel might relate to your poems. Every poem has two components, its meaning and its form (the way you use words to express your meaning). I am wondering how your poems would change if you were to express the same meaning but use different poetic forms and techniques to do so. You thought they would become longer...but maybe they'd just become different and possibly stronger poems (by which I mean even more memorable and striking).

You have described your experience of writing poetry as that of your being under emotional pressure until...squirt!...the poem explodes out, releasing that psychological pressure and being your answer to your emotional question of how to "rectify" the problem. (Rectum, rectify. Interesting, huh?)

Because "pooetry" can have different forms...we don't just have to take the one it comes out in (logs, piles, you name it); we can shape our poo, play with it, condense it down, stretch it out, dry it, smear it (whatever you like!)...I am thinking that if you were to play longer with your poetic form or "poo," you might end up with other versions of your poems that you like even more.

Take, for example, the second verse of the lyrics of the song "Free" that I wrote ("I’m waiting, hoping you’ll treasure that you live. / I’m wishing, yearning you’ll take the love I give. / Let your pain out when you feel it’s no use. / Don’t turn it inward in self-abuse"), about which you commented: "Can't put my finger on it, but this series of lines doesn't seem to speak to me as much as the first. Still great lines, just can't tell what's wrong."

I've been thinking that possibly you are responding to the lack of imagery in this stanza, in which I used no imagery at all, while the other stanzas (the ones you liked better) contained visual imagery. If I rewrote that less compelling stanza, perhaps I could give it more punch by including an image in it.

Now let's look again at your poem, Untitled #29, the one where I was wishing for the form to contain more action, more reflections of the outside world:

Untitled #29

Life is moving on
and I must move with it
Because life isn't what you
think or feel or say
its what you do
and how you live it

^ I believe that what I am missing in your #29 may be the very same thing you felt was missing in my second stanza of "Free." Instead of just stating the emotions, I could have shown them in some other way that involves the external senses, and this might have strengthened the lyrics.

I feel right now your poems are tipping in the direction of valuing the meaning much more than the form (while my lyrics tend to tip in the opposite direction).

Pyj, I feel you are very open and outgoing...more outgoing than anyone else I've observed here online (I thought I'd tell you that, just in case you didn't know how outgoing you are, although I suspect you realized this long ago. ) I imagine that it must be disappointing for you sometimes to find so many people who are much more inwardly focused.

I can see just from your writing here on MB that you are a giver, and so I'm not surprised you have been a giver in your personal life, too. I understand your sense of unfairness that you haven't met relationship partners who give as much as they take.

I think everyone can be an ass sometimes in a relationship...which is why the humbling art of apology and forgiveness is so important ... as is being able to listen to both people's sides of the relationship story and see each other's perspective, acknowledging when you feel your partner's concerns have validity.

Thank you for taking the time to break down the process that was behind each of your poems. I was interested and I read your descriptions. You concluded...

I see!

Even *I* would spit on you if you were on fire, so that *is* sad that people you were involved with in serious relationships wouldn't and instead left you crawling around in your house ill and alone. It brings to mind that cliche, "With friends like that, who needs enemies?"

Of course you deserve respect and someone to move mountains for you. This issue reminds me of poem #29 in which you wished that your significant other, instead of talk, talk, talking, would take action and move forward with the relationship. I'm reminded now of *another* cliche, the one that says when it comes to love, don't believe what people say, believe what they *do*. "Actions speak louder than words." <--I think this is very true.

I thought that was sweet that you tried out my editing suggestions. Please know that I will not be offended at all if you don't...these are your babies, and you can dress them as you like...but I do feel that being open to suggestions (that you may not have thought of on your own) is a great way to rethink poems. I would always want you to choose the form that *you* like best.

Finally, you wrote about your girlfriend breaking up with you at McDonald's. I agree, if someone did that to me, I'd be upset (for several reasons). At least she didn't use a Post-It note!

True.

I also feel that poems help me untangle, identify, and honor my emotions so that I can better deal with the external world and decide on a course of action. I was also thinking about your #29 and wanted to say to you that writing a poem *is* actually an action, so my critique wasn't entirely true. I think that the main response I had to that poem was that I wanted you to show me rather than just tell me.

I like that poems with their brevity not only can help authors focus in on emotions that can change their lives, but also can have that same effect on readers. Thank you for sharing your poems. I enjoy thinking about them and hearing your thoughts about them, too.

__________________

slappyjenkins

^^I feel somehow all of sudden naked after communicating with you in these last few posts...but that is not neccessarily a bad thing. I've needed a vent for a long time.

I think I hold people to the 'Cindy' standard and I don't know how to break it. I was able to tell her anything. I was able to be weak around her. If I bought her a soda one day, she'd buy me two the next day. There just aren't many people like her out there.

What I've run into, and using the REAL facts here....

Went to see Sherri in the hospital during her kidney operation, was the only friend that came to see her, even the guy she had a crush on didn't come to check on her...she later told me that she didn't want to start a relationship with me because she was going to start a relationship with that guy. He wouldn't even come see her in the hospital!

Sat with Molly for nearly 3 days while she had the flu...or stomach flu, or something, we never knew what it was...only that she was sick....did jokes for her, held her, wrote her that poem....only to have her 'break up' with me at McDonald's....HOW DO YOU BREAK UP WITH SOMEONE WHO YOU AREN'T EVEN REALLY GOING WITH??? hahaha, but that's my life...

Gave Ashley 800 dollars to get some of her teeth fixed. She got in trouble with the law for something and left town, didn't even tell me about it or say bye or nothing. She shows up a few months later with some guy named James.

Bought Amanda a used car...little Honda, cost 2500. Was told I'd be paid back, but she wrecked it and never paid a cent back.

Helped Ellen get back in school to the tune of 7 THOUSAND dollars...she became a vet and moved to Ohio to work with her dad. I was only paid back about half of that ammount.

And I'm that guy that you think of when something is going on in your life that you want to talk to...I can't tell you how many times I would sit and listen while someone had their head on my shoulder crying for hours and hours.

All I can say is I've been sick, I've needed a shoulder to cry on, I've needed money. And I have rarely gotten it back in return.

It breaks you down after a while.

Why in the world am I spewing all of this???? I thought we were going to talk about poetry LOL.

I guess that comment of 'I'm interested in where these come from' really was like releasing a valve for me!!! I didn't even realize!

Thank you my friend for taking a closer, longer look at me.