PLEASE help settle dispute w/husband & sons

kearnine · 08-30-2012, 12:50 PM

This all so very helpful and deeply appreciated. What wise, sound counsel. Thank you so much for the reminders of what it's like to be a teenager! Duh! There is so much angst throughout those years and a tremendous need for catharsis, openness, and understanding.

And self expression. And freedom of speech. Crucial stuff.

If only I'd had all of this in mind when the debate raged in our house yesterday. Your input will make all the difference when we take up the conversation up again. Vegangelica, everything you said about how we work out our differences is absolutely key in this whole thing. I so needed that. Thank you.

(I admit I was in great need of a little validation, so thanks very much for that, too. I promise not to use it against my poor sons and husband.)

Man, I am awed when people take time out of their busy lives to help a total stranger as you all have done. You are kind souls and then some, along with Tore. Thank you, thank you. I will pay it forward.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 08-30-2012, 12:50 PM

17 and you''re worried he might have a negative thought?

You should be more worried that he's not balls deep in some schoolgirl without any protection.

Phantom Limb · 08-30-2012, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger ?

17 and you''re worried he might have a negative thought?

You should be more worried that he's not balls deep in some schoolgirl without any protection.

You don't need a condom if she's hot.

kearnine · 08-30-2012, 01:17 PM

Oops, I just saw the deletion of the info I included about how to listen to the song. I should have read the forum rules more carefully. I can see why someone might wonder if my post was spam. Sorry about that.

Guybrush · 08-30-2012, 02:07 PM

Happy to help, Kearnine

Best of wishes to you and your family!

VEGANGELICA · 08-30-2012, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kearnine

If only I'd had all of this in mind when the debate raged in our house yesterday. Your input will make all the difference when we take up the conversation up again. Vegangelica, everything you said about how we work out our differences is absolutely key in this whole thing. I so needed that. Thank you.

(I admit I was in great need of a little validation, so thanks very much for that, too. I promise not to use it against my poor sons and husband.)

You're very welcome for the advice and the validation, Caroline.

I liked the song BTW and posted about it here:
http://www.musicbanter.com/general-m...ml#post1225780

Your kids are fortunate to have supportive, involved parents. I know as a mom that seeing a child enjoy his own creativity and life is one of the happiest experiences a parent can have. I'm glad you can all enjoy music together due to your children's interests!

ribbons · 08-30-2012, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kearnine

BTW, could we avoid getting into "It's art and art is sacred so anything goes" territory? That pretty much needs to wait for when the boys are on their own. For now, I'm the parent, they are the children. While I respect and appreciate and do what I can to support the development of their talents and artistry, I got a am also responsible for teaching them values. Like kindness. And a bit of restraint.

Hi, Caroline. You are raising your sons to be gentlemen with healthy attitudes toward women and that is very important and valuable. You seem to be a very conscientious mother to me and I think your sons and husband are lucky to have your good influence.

I heard your sons' band on Vegangelica's thread and they are very talented. If that is your son on lead vocals, he has a great voice! You must be so proud of them.

Keep up the good work -- you can never go wrong in being "careful" about your children's upbringing. It makes this crazy world a better place, for them and for everyone else.

All the best to you and your family.

Liz

Mrd00d · 08-30-2012, 08:07 PM

It's not a new lyric or thought, and has been pulled off gracefully by others. Everyone else that said their piece has said all I could, so I'll just leave you with a similar tune.

CAKE - Sick of You

But they've turned it into a tune of independence. It leans towards the positive side. I didn't listen to your sons song, so instead I ask is the musical emotion more negative or more positive than this tune?

Blarobbarg · 08-30-2012, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

You're very welcome for the advice and the validation, Caroline.

I liked the song BTW and posted about it here:
http://www.musicbanter.com/general-m...ml#post1225780

Your kids are fortunate to have supportive, involved parents. I know as a mom that seeing a child enjoy his own creativity and life is one of the happiest experiences a parent can have. I'm glad you can all enjoy music together due to your children's interests!

Holy cow, that was them?

Caroline, your kids are fantastic. They have some real skill there, you must be very proud. You've done a great job raising your sons, and I applaud you for raising them to be good people... AND good musicians!

Neapolitan · 08-30-2012, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kearnine

I'm the mother of two boys, aged 15 and almost 17, whose rock band is gaining some attention locally and online. I enjoy their catchy new song, "Ink", but I've told them I have a problem with the song's recurring and final line, written by my 15-year-old:

"I'm so sick of wasting time on you."

As we've provided guitar lessons supported the boys' developing talents and the band, my husband and I have made it clear that the song lyrics and overall tenor of their music needs to stay positive. At least while we're in charge, footing the bill, and responsible for teaching them values. They have been happy to follow this guideline.

But now we have this lyric. To me, it's negative and mean-spirited. And suddenly my husband and I are in different universes on the subject. He and the boys react to my objection like I'm completely nuts. The boys say, "It's just a lyric! No one would think we actually say stuff like that! There are lyrics out there that are way worse!" (That last point is true, of course, but carries little weight with me in this debate.)

My husband calls the lyric ironic and "funny", which utterly baffles me.

All three of them reject my perception about songwriters and performers - that usually, purposely, they are putting forth who they are in their lyrics - their philosophic values, life experience, etc. So, I'm told, it's silly to assume that a person hearing "Ink" might think, "Sheesh, is that what these guys would say to a girl during a break-up?

Or, worse, "Maybe treating people like that is part of the reason why these guys have so much game."

Here's what I need. Please tell me your opinion on this debate. Do you think the lyric "I'm so sick of wasting time on you" is negative?

Below are the full lyrics. You can listen to the song on [possible promo removed] - the name of the band is [possible promo removed] and the song is called "Ink".

Here we are just wasting time again
But who even cares
When all you want is to breathe again
And feel secure

Heart in hand
All you see is red
And I'm so sick of wasting time on you

Smile because this is all for you
So let's be kids again
Say when and I'll stop
Pouring your poison

Heart in hand
Head in hand
And I'm so sick of wasting ink on you

Heart in hand
All you see is red
And I'm so sick of wasting time on you

The last line slows way down, its words leaving a strong final impression in the listener's mind.

BTW, could we avoid getting into "It's art and art is sacred so anything goes" territory? That pretty much needs to wait for when the boys are on their own. For now, I'm the parent, they are the children. While I respect and appreciate and do what I can to support the development of their talents and artistry, I am also responsible for teaching them values. Like kindness. And a bit of restraint.

Thanks very much in advance for your opinions on this. It may seem like a small thing but, when you're raising kids, it's moments like this one that can really matter in the long run.

Sincerely,
Caroline

Caroline,

I'm not worried about the line "And I'm so sick of wasting time on you," I'm more worried about the lines "Say when and I'll stop Pouring your poison" and "Heart in hand Head in hand" because especially with the latter I don't know if they mean it to be taken literally or figuratively, if it's the former it's kinda gruesome. I don't mind double meaning in lyrics, but nothing like that. I wouldn't listen to the song myself. There are certain things I won't listen to just because I don't care for the subject matter.

I know many people are of the opinion that music is about rebellion and that anything goes. I believe music is art, and art is beauty. And when it comes to judging music it's all a question of aesthetics. Lyrics are a different from (instrumental) music, lyrics conveys a message and whether it's a message is positive/negative (good/bad) that's a question of ethics.

You are the parent and you should have enough confidence in yourself that you know what is the right thing to do for children.

08-30-2012, 12:50 PM	#12 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	17 and you''re worried he might have a negative thought? You should be more worried that he's not balls deep in some schoolgirl without any protection. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

08-30-2012, 01:17 PM	#14 (permalink)
kearnine Groupie Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 4	Oops, I just saw the deletion of the info I included about how to listen to the song. I should have read the forum rules more carefully. I can see why someone might wonder if my post was spam. Sorry about that. Last edited by kearnine; 08-30-2012 at 01:18 PM. Reason: Typo

08-30-2012, 02:07 PM	#15 (permalink)
Guybrush Juicious Maximus III Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scabb Island Posts: 6,525	Happy to help, Kearnine Best of wishes to you and your family! __________________ Something Completely Different

08-30-2012, 08:07 PM	#18 (permalink)
Mrd00d Stoned and Jammin' Out Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Northern California; Eugene, OR; mobile Posts: 1,602	It's not a new lyric or thought, and has been pulled off gracefully by others. Everyone else that said their piece has said all I could, so I'll just leave you with a similar tune. CAKE - Sick of You But they've turned it into a tune of independence. It leans towards the positive side. I didn't listen to your sons song, so instead I ask is the musical emotion more negative or more positive than this tune? __________________ Mrd00d's Last.fm

08-30-2012, 12:50 PM	#11 (permalink)
kearnine Groupie Join Date: Aug 2012 Posts: 4	This all so very helpful and deeply appreciated. What wise, sound counsel. Thank you so much for the reminders of what it's like to be a teenager! Duh! There is so much angst throughout those years and a tremendous need for catharsis, openness, and understanding. And self expression. And freedom of speech. Crucial stuff. If only I'd had all of this in mind when the debate raged in our house yesterday. Your input will make all the difference when we take up the conversation up again. Vegangelica, everything you said about how we work out our differences is absolutely key in this whole thing. I so needed that. Thank you. (I admit I was in great need of a little validation, so thanks very much for that, too. I promise not to use it against my poor sons and husband.) Man, I am awed when people take time out of their busy lives to help a total stranger as you all have done. You are kind souls and then some, along with Tore. Thank you, thank you. I will pay it forward.