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View Poll Results: do you consider yourself a poet?
Yes, I consider myself more than just a singer. My lyrics are everything to me 2 12.50%
No, I'm not that pretentious 4 25.00%
Well, I consider myself both a singer/performer and a poet 3 18.75%
No, I'm not that good. I try to write good lyrics though 4 25.00%
My lyrics suck ass. Hell no 3 18.75%
Voters: 16. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 07-15-2010, 03:04 PM   #51 (permalink)
killedmyraindog
 
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Originally Posted by AwwSugar View Post
I think I limit myself. I have an idea of what a song should be, and I never leave those barriers to really express myself.
When I write poetry, I'm able to escape from all of the barriers I have.
I don't really know how to do that with music.
Sorry to be a pain in the ass but I come from a different place, so I'm fairly curious. What should a song be? I don't mean to sound prosecutorial here but it seemed for so much of this thread most people said they were interchangeable, I said songs are far less rigid than a poem would be otherwise...

You now represent a balance in the argument.
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Old 07-15-2010, 03:13 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog View Post
Sorry to be a pain in the ass but I come from a different place, so I'm fairly curious. What should a song be? I don't mean to sound prosecutorial here but it seemed for so much of this thread most people said they were interchangeable, I said songs are far less rigid than a poem would be otherwise...

You now represent a balance in the argument.
You're not being a pain in the ass at all.
I guess I mean the structure usually found in songs. Chorus, Verses, sometimes rhyming, Bridge...
It's not as easy for me to write as a poem.

It's not what a song should be but instead what I tell myself my song should have.
I limit myself and therefore make it more difficult.
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Old 07-15-2010, 09:52 PM   #53 (permalink)
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The Big3.

I enjoy cycling, books, Gin, and politics.

And you are?
Why, hello there, The Big3. How nice to meet you.

My name is Erica. I enjoy cycling, books, persimmons, and politics. I also like dancing (modern and international dancing), though I haven't done much recently. And I love poetry! Say, do you like poetry, by any chance? If you do, then maybe someday you can tell me what you think poetry is, and we can debate it!

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Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog View Post
What? You wanna try rewriting this, broham? I mean with a double-edit you've conceded that you don't actually read anything before you respond to it. Which might explain your attitude and miserable understanding of poetics.
Hmm. I read this post of yours to a Mr. Bungalow, and I must say that I don't think he has a miserable understanding of poetry at all! Of course, one reason for this may be that I share his views!

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maybe you're just unaware that there is good poetry and there is bad poetry, and these determinations are mostly left to subjective value judgments, but it is all poetry and your estimation of what constitutes good poetry is distinct from what constitutes poetry.
I agree with you completely, bungalow. Whether someone dislikes the subject or form of a poem doesn't mean it isn't poetry.
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If a chicken was smart enough to be able to speak English and run in a geometric pattern, then I think it should be smart enough to dial 911 (999) before getting the axe, and scream to the operator, "Something must be done! Something must be done!"
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Old 07-16-2010, 08:28 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Say, do you like poetry, by any chance? If you do, then maybe someday you can tell me what you think poetry is, and we can debate it!
I do. I tend to like oddballs like Frank O'Hara, or the Brits from the 1800's. In my bias, my favorite has to be "For the Union Dead" by Robert Lowell. How about you, got any favorites?

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I agree with you completely, bungalow. Whether someone dislikes the subject or form of a poem doesn't mean it isn't poetry.
Well I think he was referring to quality overall. I used to have this same fight with a friend of mine about Author's Intent which he would always argue was irrelevant.

But the way I see it it intention has to have some weight in the discussion because at the very least we should know how well did the job get done. If you attempt to write the next great American novel and its set in Brussels, I think you've missed the point.

There is a large amount of latitude in "good." But at some point, if we don't factor in a scale for quality why even have the name "poetry." at that point it will have bled into and be synonymous with "writing"
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Old 07-17-2010, 05:16 PM   #55 (permalink)
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I do. I tend to like oddballs like Frank O'Hara, or the Brits from the 1800's. In my bias, my favorite has to be "For the Union Dead" by Robert Lowell. How about you, got any favorites?
Ahh...I like Frank O'Hara's "Animals" poem. I'd never read Lowell's "For the Union Dead." Since I lived in Boston for a while, I liked all the vivid descriptions of the city and the way history is dealt with there. I also like Brits from the 1800's!

Yes, I do have some favorite poems. One of my favorites is:

Quote:
The Silken Tent by Robert Frost.

She is as in a field a silken tent
At midday when the sunny summer breeze
Has dried the dew and all its ropes relent,
So that in guys it gently sways at ease,
And its supporting central cedar pole,
That is its pinnacle to heavenward
And signifies the sureness of the soul,
Seems to owe naught to any single cord,
But strictly held by none, is loosely bound
By countless silken ties of love and thought
To every thing on earth the compass round,
And only by one's going slightly taut
In the capriciousness of summer air
Is of the slightlest bondage made aware.
I also like:

Quote:
Haiku by Kobayashi Issa, a Japanese poet (1763 - 1828)

***********

Now take this flea:
He simply cannot jump...and
I love him for it.

***********

Writing shit about new snow
for the rich
is not art.

***********

Pissing in the snow
outside my door--
it makes a very straight hole.

***********

Don't worry, spiders,
I keep house
casually.

***********

Last time, I think,
I'll brush the flies
from my father's face.

***********
I like these British poems:

Quote:

Rondeau by Leigh Hunt (1784-1859)

Jenny kissed me when we met,
Jumping from the chair she sat in;
Time, you thief, who love to get
Sweets into your list, put that in:

Say I'm weary, say I'm sad,
Say that health and wealth have missed me,
Say I'm growing old, but add,
Jenny kissed me.

***************************

Raining by W.W. Gibson (from WWI)

The night I left my father said:
'You'll go and do some stupid thing.
You've no more sense in that fat head
Than Silly Billy Witterling.

'Not sense to come in when it rains --
Not sense enough for that, you've got.
You'll get a bullet through your brains
Before you know, as like as not.'

And now I'm lying in the trench
And shells and bullets through the night
Are raining in a steady drench,
I'm thinking the old man was right.

*************************

The Bride by D. H. Lawrence

My love looks like a girl tonight,
But she is old.
The plaits that lie along her pillow
Are not gold,
But threaded with filigree,
And uncanny cold.

She looks like a young maiden, since her brow
Is smooth and fair,
Her cheeks are very smooth, her eyes are closed,
She sleeps a rare
Still winsome sleep, so still, and so composed.

Nay, but she sleeps like a bride, and dreams her dreams
Of perfect things.
She lies at last, the darling, in the shape of her dream,
And her dead mouth sings
By its shape, like the thrushes in clear evenings.

*************************
I also like the last two stanzas of Roger Waters' song lyrics, "Two suns in the sunset." A high school classmate brought it in to an English class during the section on poetry, and I've kept the photocopy all these years:

Quote:
from "Two Suns in the Sunset" by Roger Waters

...like the moment when the brakes lock
and you slide towards the big truck
you stretch the frozen moments with your fear
and you'll never hear their voices
and you'll never see their faces
you have no recourse to the law anymore

and as the windshield melts
my tears evaporate
leaving only charcoal to defend
finally I understand
the feelings of the few
ashes and diamonds
foe and friend
we were all equal in the end.
That last one is part of a song!

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Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog View Post
There is a large amount of latitude in "good." But at some point, if we don't factor in a scale for quality why even have the name "poetry." at that point it will have bled into and be synonymous with "writing"
I guess I don't mind if poetry bleeds into writing. For example, Issa, a very famous poet, is famous and beloved because his observations about life *are* about subjects that are so commonplace, so human, so simple, and often humorous. There is nothing pretentious about his writings. He's just a regular person writing about his feelings about life. I like that. I also like that he constrains his observations into the haiku format, which forces him to make his point pithily.

EDIT: By the way, I view The Lorax as one long and very good poem, its point summarized by that one word, "Unless."
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If a chicken was smart enough to be able to speak English and run in a geometric pattern, then I think it should be smart enough to dial 911 (999) before getting the axe, and scream to the operator, "Something must be done! Something must be done!"

Last edited by VEGANGELICA; 07-17-2010 at 05:29 PM.
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:25 PM   #56 (permalink)
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EDIT: By the way, I view The Lorax as one long and very good poem, its point summarized by that one word, "Unless."
Oh certainly.

Shakespeare, Proust, Faulkner, Suess.

I'm running out but I'll read the poems you put in at some point.
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Old 07-17-2010, 07:50 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Shakespeare, Proust, Faulkner, Suess.
Exactly!

Although maybe Suess should go first.
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If a chicken was smart enough to be able to speak English and run in a geometric pattern, then I think it should be smart enough to dial 911 (999) before getting the axe, and scream to the operator, "Something must be done! Something must be done!"
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