Arya Stark

Well now that that's settled... xD

I suggest people who don't have anything intelligent to say (Rickenbacker) shouldn't be here at all.

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Stone Birds

F u n n y A s H e l l ! ! !

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Arya Stark

What's funny as hell? o.O

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Stone Birds

the situation Rickenbacker is in

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Arya Stark

Heh. I tend to dismiss people when they act like that... >.>

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VEGANGELICA

Hi, Rickenbacker,

I’ve been thinking about how best to reply in order to keep you in dialogue with me about the emotions and issues you raise in your post, because I want to understand the causes of your negative feelings. I would like to understand what exactly makes it irritating for you when I sing about wishing I had cared about and loved animals instead of eating them blindly for many years.

First, thank you for reading my lyrics and for giving a response, since I can tell from your reaction that doing so wasn’t pleasant for you! Still, you actually acknowledged reading the lyrics and you shared your honest reaction, and for that I thank you.

Your comment is similar to a common response I hear when some people are confronted with veganism: they don’t like it when someone points out that we have the choice not to eat animal products and there are many good reasons to make this choice. For example, here are some of the recent posts four different MB members made about veganism since I joined MB:

Because I write songs about vegan issues and base my songs on what I learn or observe about omnivores and vegans, I want to understand the reasons people have for continuing to eat animal products and for having negative feelings about veganism.

Rickenbacker, or other omnivores, I’m hoping you will tell me more about your reactions, such as whether you agree with some of the following reasons omnivores may give for eating animals, milk, and eggs, and why you may not like it when vegans question this practice.

REASONS OMNIVORES MAY GIVE FOR EATING ANIMALS/ANIMAL PRODUCTS:
Do you agree? What is missing from the list?

(1) “Animals don’t have feelings.”

Very few people probably believe this now, since neurobiologists have established that non-human animals, like humans, exhibit behaviors and brain functions associated with sentience (the ability to be aware of experiences and have emotional reactions to them). For example, parrots or dogs with psychological problems (obsessive/compulsive disorder and depression/self-mutilation) have symptoms that improve with Prozac, just as occurs for many humans with these psychological issues.

(2) “Animals have feelings, but I don’t care about them.”

I think this is the most common response omnivores might give to explain why they eat animals. A variation of this response is, “Might makes right: since I *can* do this to animals, it is okay for me to do so.”

One reason for not caring about animals’ feelings is that within human cultures the most common type of morality appears to be “anthropocentrism,” which is a human-centered morality in which only humans have moral standing (meaning we only need to be concerned about our ethical treatment of humans), while everything else (nature, all other beings) has “instrumental value” (meaning they only have value insofar as they are useful to us). Another rationale often given is that since animals will die anyway, I might as well kill them when they are young and eat them.

Related to this explanation for omnivorous diets are some economic reasons: often people who make their living through animal agriculture or processing have a vested interest in maintaining their livelihood and in feeling they are doing a good thing, and so they may be especially strong in their opposition to veganism. A more complicated issue is that sometimes people who actually do care about animals may try to bury their sympathy, otherwise it would be too hard for them to live with themselves and still believe they are being good and kind as they support people who hurt/kill animals.

(3) “I like the taste of animals, and so I don’t like it when you tell me you feel I shouldn’t be eating them.”

I understand that no one wants to be told what to do/eat. The irony, though, is that most people were never given a choice about becoming a meat (dairy/egg) eater. If you are like the typical omnivore, then family members and schools probably gave you meat without any option. Similarly, the animal industry tells people repeatedly to eat meat, dairy, and eggs, and spends a huge amount of money to get you to want to do so. They have discovered their advertising works.

When an omnivore reacts by saying (3), I generally ask the following: if you feel your freedom of choice is being attacked when people simply sing about the positive reasons for eating plant-based diets, and the negatives of eating animal-based diets, then are you similarly angry/annoyed at all the people who have forced meat and a meat-eating culture on you since you were a baby, and if not, why not?

(4) “Religion/culture tells me animals are here for us to use and so I do so.”

An example of this would be the whole “humans were given dominion” idea. For example, a religious young man once told me he believes humans have souls, but animals don’t, and so although he doesn’t want them to be tortured he also doesn’t feel it is wrong to kill them.

(5) “Diets with animal products are healthiest.”

In reality, well-planned omnivorous and well-planned vegan diets can be equally healthful for most people, although vegan diets have certain benefits recognized within the nutrition community (such as the American Dietetics Association or ADA). For example, vegan diets have fewer carcinogens (created by cooking meat), less saturated fat, less animal protein, more plant protein, and more health-protective vitamins (folate, etc.) than omnivorous diets. Vegan diets are high in essential fatty acids, and non-essential long-chain fatty acids such as DHA and EPA can by obtained from algae. The one vitamin supplement vegans need that omnivores get from animal products is vitamin B-12, which is synthesized by bacteria (the source of vitamin B-12 in animal products).

Do you or other readers feel this list covers most of the reasons omnivores give for remaining omnivores, or are there some I’ve missed? If you wish, please let me know by posting or by private message, because this will help me greatly in writing vegan songs.

To THE ABOMINABLE HOMAN: thank you again for your fair assessment of my work! I’ll be interested to see your response to future song lyrics I post.

–Erica

Stone Birds

hey Erica anything new (like your cheese song)?

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VEGANGELICA

Hi, Stone Birds (and perhaps others!),

In fact I *am* done with the cheese song! Thank you for asking. I finished the lyrics several days ago. I was planning to share them after I completed the full recording, but since you asked about the cheese song I'll go ahead and post it and the lyrics now, although my recording still lacks the drum part.

First, though, some background information on the cheese song for readers who may be new to this thread. Stone Birds posted several pictures to inspire songwriters in the Songwriter Inspiration thread. I chose the picture of the cheese on a plate, because cheese on a plate in front of a vegan is like baiting a bear. I combined this with the discovery that AwwSugar thinks the only rhyming poem that works with death as a theme is "Ring around the Rosie."

Hmmm, thought I. How shall I combine cheese, death, and "Ring around the Rosie?" The result was the song "Wring." The song is in the metal genre, I believe, which is a new one for me to try.

Here is additional information about the song that may be helpful in understanding it. As you may already know, people kill all the male calves of dairy cows as well as the male chicks of the egg-laying hen breeds. So, every egg someone eats comes from a hen whose brother, typically, was killed by people when he was a hatchling (since he would never grow up to lay eggs and is thus considered worthless). In the U.S., people kill approximately 200 MILLION male egg-type chicks per year
(source: Bell, Donald D., and Weaver, W. D. (2002) COMMERICIAL CHICKEN MEAT AND EGG PRODUCTION, Kluwer Academic Publishers, p. 20).

Similarly, cheese comes from milk that would have gone to male calves whom people slaughter at a young age since they will never give milk and have not been bred to put on weight efficiently.

Yet before pasting in the lyrics, there is BREAKING NEWS!! Alas, my backup vocalist (and trombone player) decided that the "cheese song" was the final straw in our diverging musical/lyrical tastes, and so (since he did not want to take responsibility for it and some other edgy songs I've written) he has amicably withdrawn from our fledgling band! (We still maintain civil discourse over breakfast, though,...well, actually, we don't, because we get up at different times to go to work). Meanwhile, my recorder player and my keyboard player are going to be out of town frequently, and so will just be able to help record a few tracks when available.

So, the "VEGANGELICA band" has become the "VEGANGELICA b." However, I will valiantly continue on with my stellar career as a solo vegan musician. One advantage is that now I don't have to edit my lyrics or tame them down anymore (hehe).

THE MUSIC RATING SYSTEM Rating for "Wring" is DDD for "Death and Destruction with a dash of Demonism." The song is about a farm child who is being indoctrinated into the meat-eating culture she is forced to accept.

************************************************
“Wring” by Erica

The cow is in the parlor,
her calf confined in squalor
so we can have, we can have
milk and cheese. Yum!

Her little baby boy
will never know the joy
of Mommy’s love, Mommy’s love.
We’ll eat them up. Yum!

Dad says that we don’t need them.
It costs too much to feed them.
Cut their throats! Cut their throats!
String them up. Yum!

Now eat what’s on your plate, Dear.
Don’t think about their fate, Dear.
Chew them up! Chew them up,
with pus and blood. Yum!

(brief musical interlude)

The hens are laying eggs
that drop between their legs
in cages, cages
we stuff them in. Yum!

The wire cuts her toes.
Darkness, all she knows.
Lay eggs, lay eggs,
so we have omelets. Yum!

This little hen is spent.
She’s crippled, weak, and bent.
Daddy, Daddy
will cut her head off. Yum!

She’s running through the yard.
I blink my tears back hard.
She’s running, running,
she’s headless, running. Yum!

Wring their little necks,
for God gives and protects.
Eat them up! Eat them up!
Thank your god. Yum!

Wring their little necks,
for God gives and protects.
Eat them up! Eat them up!
Thank you, God. Yum!

See the trays of chicks
stacked like living bricks.
Hatchlings, hatchlings.
You’re going to die. Yum!

Sex the egg layers.
Send them down conveyors.
Run, chicks. Run chicks,
who can’t lay eggs. Yum!

Daddy says God made
the eggs the chickens laid.
Kill the chicks! Kill the chicks,
so eggs are cheap. Yum!

Dump the males in aisles
in fluffy yellow piles.
Suffocate! Suffocate
so we have eggs. Yum!

Wring their little necks,
for God gives and protects.
Crush them up! Crush them up!
Thank your god. Yum!

Wring their little necks,
for God gives and protects.
Crush them up! Crush them up!
Thank you, God! Yum!

The cow is led to slaughter.
Now we will milk her daughter
so we can have, we can have
chuck and cheese. Yum!

A child says she won’t eat
anyone as meat. They tell her,
“Starve then. Starve then,
or eat their flesh, yum!”

“Dance in delight.
You’re having pizza tonight.
Say ‘Cheese! Cheese!’
Smile, everyone.”

The blood drips from my chin
from someone’s intestine.
Swallow, swallow
tripe and arms and dung.

Wring their little necks
for God gives and protects.
Eat them up! Eat them up!
Thank you, God. Yum!

Kids dance in delight.
We’re having pizza tonight!
Cheese! Cheese!
Smile, everyone!

REPEAT x 3:
Feed them, sell them, ship them, lead them,
Stick them, Slice them, Hang them, Bleed them,
CUT them, SKIN them, HACK them, BEAT them,
GRIND THEM, CHILL THEM, COOK THEM, EAT THEM!

Stone Birds

uhmm, are you in a grunge band?

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Arya Stark

Your band actually performs this? o.O

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MB Journal.
Azucar y Especia. My blog.