Kevorkian Logic

haha, yea, I've given up on Dark Circle, if you aim to have mainstream lyrics they will be sub-par.

You have me figured out quicker than probably any other person. Kudos, I'm extremely impressed.

I haven't read the book yet (I'll read it after I finish Dr. Faustus), coincidently, I actually picked up that book about a week ago at a quaint little used bookstore near my house. I'm curious, is it written in the same stream of consciousness style that Catcher in the Rye was written in? (I don't know about you, but I greatly enjoy that post-modern style of writing).

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"it is only through a limitless accumulation of the imperfect that a certain type of perfection can be attained"

ItsRed

I thought Catcher in the Rye was pretty linear, but my point of reference for stream of conscious writing is Joyce and Woolf. [Just now, for some reason, I think you might have got Millers' Tropic of Cancer confused with Catcher in the Rye (weird that I would think that), which I could see as stream of conscious (Tropic of Capricorn, more so).] But I also am guilty of telling someone I didn't think Camus stuff was existential and they pulled out source after source to let me know that it was.

As far as what I'm reading I've been on a non-fiction buzz.

Just a weird little factoid, while I was reading both Catcher in the Rye and Franny and Zooey (years apart) I vomited, not sure what provoked it from Catcher in the Rye, but in Franny and Zooey it was the description of her chicken sandwich (I was also reading hung over). They are the only times I've vomited while reading. Now you know, lucky lucky you.

And thanks for the kudos!

If I were a doctor
I'd prescribe,
earplugs
and
sunglasses,
stat!

Kevorkian Logic

Catcher in the Rye was linear in plot, disjointed in ideas. I'm not a big fan of Virginia Woolf mainly because I spent a summer in Bryn Mawr and my teacher was obsessed with Virginia Woolf and made us read 7 of her books and about 15 of her short-stories, it was too much Woolf in such a short time. I've only read Ulysses and A Portrait of a Young Man by James Joyce. If you have read other works by him are they worth reading?

It would be hard to get Millers' Tropic of Cancer confused with Cather in the Rye, although they both deal with sex, Tropic of Cancer a bit more explicitly. I don't find it that weird that you connect those books, I can oddly enough see how you do.

I'm stumped on how you didn't think Camus' work was existential. Care to share how you connected to that idea? I'm intrigued.

As a side note on Camus, if your into the non-finction right now his essay The Myth of Sisyphus, Betwixt and Between, and Resistance, Rebellion and Death are all worth the read (especially the first 2). And if you can find it (it took me a good while to find) his short-story Drunken Butterfly is amazing(In the last few days I used aim that was my screen name). The Stranger is pretty good but it's fiction.

Haha, I feel lucky knowing about your reading/vomiting life. Another kudos though for reading while hung-over, all I ever can do hungover is stare blankly at the TV or eat a hamburger (they help so way.) You should read The Jungle hungover, i'm sure it would make you throw up. That book is vile.

And thanks for the advice about how to deal with the ultra-sensitivity. How you put it sounds like the beginning of a Jimmy Buffet song for some reason.

__________________
"it is only through a limitless accumulation of the imperfect that a certain type of perfection can be attained"

ItsRed

That cracks me up!!


Well the thing about Camus... when I got to Camus I'd never heard of him before, or existentialism as a literary genre, so I had a very denotative idea about existentialism. The purposelessness of existence.
I guess I thought that if a work purported existentialism it would strive to minimize, or illuminate the ego, or self as an affliction. Rather than have contention in the state of being as an absurd figure in a purposeless existence. I've long since forgotten the discussion, but it was concerning either The Stranger, or The Fall.

On existetialism.. what I actually think is a fantastic existential work is Ecclesiastics from The Bible.

'There is nothing new under the sun.'

WIth Joyce I really liked A Portrait.... but shortly after reading it (unrelated to it as a work) I became real selective about the things I read. So both Ulysses and Finnegans' Wake got about 30 pgs. read over several days. 'Selective' makes it sound like a choice, it was more my brain wouldn't take the input. I actually punted Sartres' 'Being and Nothingness' around my apartment in Portland, out of frustration over how my mind was just shutting off.

But now I absolutely have to find Drunken Butterfly.

Sorry about the Woolf saturation there, I once had a full term dedicated to The Crucible, never wanted to stand up in the middle of class and say 'shut up' more in my life.

If I were
a doctor
I'd prescribe,
cheeseburgers
and
paradise
twice a week.

Kevorkian Logic

You sound like your mixing up nihilism with existentialism. I bet you read Nietzsche first, he's been known to dabble in both genres of existentialism and nihilism.

Except the first two chapters(is that what they're called? books maybe?) that we had to read for school, I honestly have never read the Bible. I'm an atheist in belief, I hope you aren't an uber christian because I probably just/will offend you if you are. If you are i'm going ahead to say I don't have any issue with the religion of Christianity, I have issues with people taking it waaaay to seriously and fighting wars over the correct way to interpret it. I also hate Bush and his stupid Christian morals because his "Christianity" caused him to to be anti-abortian and stop stem cell research because it's taking away "human life." However the fact that he thinks the 1000s of people dying in Iraq is not taking away human life baffles me to no end.
I'm sorry I just went off on a belief tangent, that stuff bugs quite a bit, and i'm sorry again if I just offended you, I hope I didn't

But back to the bible thing, I never considered The Bible capable of existentialism. I'll check it out.

I'm about to be late for meeting people. I need to finish my response to you later. To be continued......(I feel so dramatic when I do that)

__________________
"it is only through a limitless accumulation of the imperfect that a certain type of perfection can be attained"

ItsRed

I actually never got around to Nietzsche, which I can't explain. Knowing me I would have thought I'd drill right down to nihilism pretty straight off, but I didn't. And he's been mentioned to me multiple times. And I binged through several German authors. And I liked them..but still...nope.

I don't believe in God in any conventional religious sense, but I am agnostic rather than atheist. And I don't care for religion. Despise Bush. Despise the religious right, Karl Rove, wedge issues, the World Bank, IMF and the new imperialism of natural resources.... As for abortion, I think any male who opposes a woman's right to choose should be forced to undergo surgery to make them able to bear child and have an embryo implanted into their guts for nine months, before voicing said opinion.


On Ecclesiastics, I really think it's a great work, I've suggested it to many a friend and they all said they would read it, but I'm sure none of them have. It's the stigma. I haven't read a lot of the Bible, but from what I've read there are some pretty decent stories and parables.

I feel kind of like a fraud talking so much about literature as I'm not really a very literate person. I was in basic english courses throughout school with fourth grade being a personal low point. I think they called it ERC, but the class was actually under the school in a dank poorly lit basement and it was extremely remedial. Like **** and Jane, like the alphabet on flash cards, like talking...very...very...slowly. And there I sat with the very dumbest of the dumb--Champions.

I still remember it fondly, but the only point of it is that I was never given any real context for the works I read, so I'm sure comprehension and literary sigificance/reference suffered. So if I seem a step or two off, it's only because I am.

Kevorkian Logic

I actually "lol"ed (for lack of a better term) when I read that. It makes me so happy, probably because I made the mistake last summer of dating an uber Catholic, with his uber strict beliefs. Just everything he said was saturated in Catholic propaganda. We would literally partake in 2 to 3 hour arguements about abortion, in which I could not penatrate his Catholic shield of ignorance, it was so annoying. He was under the delusion that men usually do most of the child-rearing and will always be there to provide fincial support. I threw every argument I could at him and he would be like a annoying bobble head that repeatably said "it's a human life. it's a human life." I was able to take out some revenge by telling him that if he wanted to have sex (which he did want, a lot (which is ironic because before he had dated me he had been all no premarital sex)) we would have to have sex in a church. He got so angry and frustrated at me. I smiled and laughed.


Putting the slightly irrelevant story aside, I am actually quite relieved your agnostic. Because I have learned that when you try to speak to someone it is best if they have no irrational barriers, like those that religion causes. Out of curiosity what type of agnostic beliefs do you follow? Technically i'm a agnostic atheist, but people tend to get confused when I say that, so I stick with just saying atheist to avoid that blank look.

I actually will read it Ecclesiastics. I read pretty much anything people recommend me, unless it's one of my dumber friends (I have some pretty idiotic friends) telling me to read Gossip Girls or some chick lit like that (Shamefully though, I admit to occasionally reading a chick lit or 2, but it's rare I have the time or patience). Have you ever read Revelations? If you have is it as creepy as everyone has said?

Hehe, Jack is censored.
Wonderful story by the way. It made me "lol" again. (I really hate using that euphemism, it makes me feel like a giddy little 7th grader who gets crushes on Justin Timberlake (Is that how you spell his name?).)
Everyone had their remedial classes, I was in speech therapy for a good 4 years, in which every week I had to say words like "rat" and "cart" and "ford" like 30 times for an hour. Why do I keep revealing the unglamorous aspects of my life to you? As much as it seems like I'm a nerd, I actually get out and party and have a social life.

I don't think you are a literate fraud though. You were able to hold a conversation about something that I bet none of my friends could. Do you have a lot of my friends just pretend to be intellectually superior to you, but really aren't? There are many girls/guys who thinks they are much smarter than me, but the funny thing is, as far as I know, my last SAT scores (800 Math, 790 English, 770 Writing) beats most of theirs. I don't want to tell anyone, though, i'm happier knowing that and them not. It's ultimately easier to play dumb. No one expects anything from me, and it's great. Am I completely off in saying that? I really don't want to be considered a pretentious intellectual at my school. Understand?

Basically I consider you among the highest of the people with literary comprehension. Probably the highest on this site. Anyhow I like people who are always a step off or two, it gives them individuality, which I consider most important in a person.

Also, there's not much hope with finding Drunken Butterfly online (I tried it when I was looking for a copy), all you ever get is Sonic Youth's Drunken Butterfly.

Oh, and I took your Cheeseburger in Paradise poem and incorporated it into my signature, if for some reason you didn't see that.

And sorry I wrote so much.

__________________
"it is only through a limitless accumulation of the imperfect that a certain type of perfection can be attained"

ItsRed

Had a long, long day at work, with a bonus meeting then off to the grandparents farm to feed animals. Almost thirteen hours tied up in a day (10pm-11am). On top of that it was 20+ awake, which is more than my exposed wiring can take. I think I have an aversion to being conscious, well maybe more than think.

I was kind of surprised to see asterisk Jack too. It now seems like it'd be a good song title, Asterisk Jack (what's that Fall song...(checks iTunes) Fiery Jack).

I did a search for drunken butterfly too. Going to have to hit Powells next time I go to Portland.

Great story of the Catholic party-line boy, poor spoon fed brain. Have had my share of frustrations from party-line toters. Republicans. Which I blame entirely on the wedge issues driven by Karl Rove. Seeking absolutism, seeking certainty -- You're either with us, or you're an anti-gun, pro *** agenda, tax increasing, abortion loving freak (taking any idea even remotely left into an absolute worse case scenario). I'm usually pretty generous in arguments, but can be a jack. I just know regardless of how convincing I am, they'll flop back on that a.m. talk radio and start the induction all over again.

On the agnostic item, it really came down to a wave/ string/ cell theory that I got on one night when questions of if linear time was absolute and there was an original state of nothingness. Real chicken and egg stuff. It's complicated to explain, but is based on a higher probability that there is some conscious element that allows adaptation/ propagation to occur. And that consciousness/ awareness is reflective, like a wave, and those imperceptible waves (or waves) are the fibers of everything and everything is connected.
But it's really not anything I spent a lot of time on. I didn't come to it through religion, if anything it was more from the Jungian collective unconscious, although at the time I knew nothing of Jung. And for the most part, still don't.

Like the sig... I was thinking of creating a sig like, Dark Circle fan since 2007 (and have their link). What do you think?

There was actually something in the AP sig that's connected to my remedial class exposure. In third grade I was placed into the most advanced english class, called -- Fiesta. The problem was the teacher either neglected to tell me, or I tuned out, that it was self-paced. There were no lessons given for the handbook, so I just let that handbook sit in my desk for an entire grading cycle (either a quarter, or maybe even a semester) . I can't even imagine what she must have thought when I turned it in, completely blank. Well obviously, she thought I was an idiot.

I didn't even get everything said here and time is crushing down. I think it's funny you 'lol'd.' It's difficult not to though, besides it's kind of an antidote to being pretentious (you can't really lol and be pretentious at the same time (okay I'm looking for an emoticon now)).
There.

There is something to the expectations people put on your intellect that just lacks the understanding what comes with the intellect that can be a liability. But I got to eat/shower/work now. Wonder what the max. characters per post are???

Kevorkian Logic

I'm impressed you have the energy to work on a farm and at another job, Whatever job who have, I'm thinking some lawyer or techie job, because of the meeting. Working on a farm is so tiring (my mom sent me up to the family farm for a couple weeks once), I don't know how you can do both.

Why can Jack be typed now? Is it just in the context of Jack and Jill that it can't? Well, we'll see when this gets posted. But that would make a pretty awsome song title. It could be like that spoof to he nursery rhyme. My most conservative friend actually taught it to me when I was in 4th grade, and the fact that it was her telling me, made it stick in my head. Here it is:

Jack and Jill went up the hill
To fetch a pail of water
Jack got high,
pulled down his fly,
and asked Jill if she wanna.

Jill said yes,
pulled up her dress,
and had a little fun.

But stupid Jill forgot the pill,
and now they have a son

It's stupid. I know. I just needed to share it for my first time ever.

It's relieving to know someone else shares my frustration in people taking the black and white politics view. Like doesn't feel like your the only one who picks up on the either your with us or against us strategy, and think it's bull? I just don't know what to do, i'm fairly outspoken, so people just consider me the crazy liberal and ignore me (my school is disgustingly full of naive conservatives).

Sadly, I can actually follow most string theory stuff (my physics teacher talked about it one day, and it really interested me so I went on a rampage reading whatever I could about string theory until I understood it). But all that science stuff is what shapes my beliefs as well. Here's my person chart of transcending religions

Tiny baby- Worshiped whoever fed me (I was a chubby 10 lb 3oz baby when I was born)
pre-k--6th- Episcopalian (Stopped going to church in 3rd grade though)
6th grade- Learned biology, no longer believed in Jesus, no religion
7th-mid 9th- Wicca (I thought I was being so cool and alternative at the time)
end 9th-10th- agnostic force out there, I don't know what
11th+- There is no God, but conscious has yet to totally be explained by science, so that could represent something else.

I don't know if you can relate/make sense of that crappy list. Does it make sense?

Honestly, I had not heard of the Jungian collective unconscious and had to go look it up. It sounds actually right up my alley, I also respect that he tried to explain neurosis, because that's actually what I want to go to college/med school and work on solving how to fix it.

And the Dark Circle fan signature is perfect.
Just amazing.
He probably will believe you are a fan, and you will be one of the "fans" he talks about having.

Hahaha(how's that instead of lol?), that is one of the best stories I've heard in a while. It's just genius. You should of claimed it was like those blank canvas and by being blank it appeals to everyone (I honestly don't know how people explain blank canvases).

And i'm sure you don't get everything I say, because half the time I don't understand what i'm saying. I just speak what I think with out a filter system or whatever is spoused to keep you from saying things you shouldn't. Like the one time I stood in front of my entire school and insulted them by calling them like spoiled brats or something.

I wonder what the max characters are too?
Any idea how to test it, because my typing skills can't last much longer than what i'm typing.

__________________
"it is only through a limitless accumulation of the imperfect that a certain type of perfection can be attained"

PaperHurricanesAndPlanes

I don't believe in God in any conventional religious sense, but I am agnostic rather than atheist. And I don't care for religion. Despise Bush. Despise the religious right, Karl Rove, wedge issues, the World Bank, IMF and the new imperialism of natural resources.... As for abortion, I think any male who opposes a woman's right to choose should be forced to undergo surgery to make them able to bear child and have an embryo implanted into their guts for nine months, before voicing said opinion. ^ I think I'm in love with you, Red.

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