Songwriting Tips Thread (lyric, rock, Queen, members, solo)

Halfa · 07-07-2008, 05:51 PM

it is nice that u have a very specific theme for ur song.
i made the mistake of not working one out before i started writing lyrics and WHAM its a mess now.....so i have to change gears with it................

candyquasar · 07-07-2008, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevesonthebay

i wrote a song years ago which seems to have a lot of repeating. i would like your opinion on it.

everybodys changing.
verse 1
when i was young i use to know, people use to tell me about the way that i should go.
everybody else was doing just the same people use to show me how to play the game.
bridge
everytime i,d ever feel so down,
you were always hanging around
and no one else would ever know your name
cause everbody was doing the same.
chorus
everybodys changing in this ever changing atmosphere and everything is going to be ok.
everybodys changing in this ever changing atmoosphere and everything is gonna be alright.
well where changing in this ever changing atmosphere its almost here its coming on throughout the night.
verse 2
now that i'm older and i know thats- not always how the way things go.
everytime you think your coming to the end, just when you get there youve gotta start all over again.
bridge.
i know theres one thing i have found that through all these changes ive come back around to the very place where i begun now i know im not the only one.
repeat chorus.
theres another verse but i cant remeber.
in writing it i can see theres a lot of repeating. what do you think. thanks steve.

I like it, it sounds like a folk song... or thats what I hear when I read it.. a sound similar to "Paranoia in Bb Major" by the Avett Brothers.

The most important thing to me when writing songs is to have a clear idea of your topic or main idea. And to re-read your song over and over again picturing yourself reading it for the first time, to make sure your conveying at least vaguely to your audience your original topic or main idea. Its okay if some people don't understand at first, but they should after you explain it.

FireInCairo · 08-15-2008, 07:58 AM

[QUOTE=DontRunMeOver;274135]8. Know exactly what the song is about

When compared to most poetry and other creative forms of language, songs are short and sweet. As lyrics must be singable and need to leave space for the music, a song will typically contain no more than a couple of hundred words (I would estimate my songs have about 150 words on average, some maybe reach about 300, but not much more).

This limit benefits the musical side of the song and it means that there is very little room for faffing about when it comes to getting your point across. You have a few hundred words to tell your story, or to convey your emotion, or to paint whatever picture you want the listener to get.

Thus it is vital that you know exactly what you're going to write about before you start writing the lyrics, so that you're well prepare to communicate the message you want within the short time available. If you have a clear idea of what you want to say, then all you need to do is render this idea into the form of a song. Plus, if you have a clear idea of what you're saying, the listener will be more likely to have a clear idea of what is being said to them. If you aren't sure what your song is about, the listener has no chance.

i think there is a lot to be said for writing without clear intent, and ambiguity...why do you need to know what its about, and songs mean different things to different people. writing with a clearly defined topic can be a stifling approach as it takes away any non-linear, absurdist, surreal and subliminal stories

the best stories in songs i have written have always come when writing idly without a topic.

FireInCairo · 08-15-2008, 08:00 AM

over-intellectualising will only cloud the matter

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whatsitoosit

I hate when a song doesn't rhyme correctly... a lot of rap artists do this. To me when you can get your point across while keeping the correct rhyming scheme/flow that is a good song.

Just getting it in the vicinity of the rhyme without really rhyming always sounds amateur to me. I would rather the word not rhyme at all then to almost rhyme.

rough rhyme is one of the most fantastic things in the world
it lends an assonance to the phrase that gives some of the flow of conventional rhyme but avoids the bland nature of most rhyme. Listen to any of the "great" songwriters to see countless examples

Whatsitoosit · 08-15-2008, 11:11 AM

You know after I posted that Fire I sort of regretted saying it. I don't mind ALL rhymes that aren't exactly rhymes but it just bugs me when it sounds forced is what I was getting at. After I posted that I was listening to something where it was a "rough rhyme" as you put it, and it was actually quite clever.

FireInCairo · 08-15-2008, 05:24 PM

Oh ok i get more what you mean
yeah that force the syllables into rhyme thing is awful
but two similar words with common assonance works quite well

Halfa · 08-15-2008, 05:54 PM

hahaha i was writing this song and the first line was cool, but i didnt know where to go. so it ended up being this really weird song about an epic battle that involves two people stronger than the gods and blah blah blah blah blah.
i ended up ripping up the whole thing and starting over. its an anti war song now.

but i used some really really weird rhymes in it.....................

Whatsitoosit · 08-27-2008, 01:49 PM

post it.

Halfa · 08-27-2008, 05:12 PM

naw. i got pissed at it and scratched the whole thing. it was pretty bad. a few days of letting it sit and i tossed it out the window. it was in such bad condition not even life support woulda helped

Whatsitoosit · 08-27-2008, 05:25 PM

ahh, yeah... can't save em all.

07-07-2008, 05:51 PM	#61 (permalink)
Halfa Allman Brothers Obsessor Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: The Whipping Post Posts: 260	it is nice that u have a very specific theme for ur song. i made the mistake of not working one out before i started writing lyrics and WHAM its a mess now.....so i have to change gears with it................ __________________ Check it out: www.myspace.com/sdotldotidotpdot Watch your step.

08-15-2008, 07:58 AM	#63 (permalink)
FireInCairo Later on... Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,235	[QUOTE=DontRunMeOver;274135]*8. Know exactly* what the song is about** When compared to most poetry and other creative forms of language, songs are short and sweet. As lyrics must be singable and need to leave space for the music, a song will typically contain no more than a couple of hundred words (I would estimate my songs have about 150 words on average, some maybe reach about 300, but not much more). This limit benefits the musical side of the song and it means that there is very little room for faffing about when it comes to getting your point across. You have a few hundred words to tell your story, or to convey your emotion, or to paint whatever picture you want the listener to get. Thus it is vital that you know exactly what you're going to write about before you start writing the lyrics, so that you're well prepare to communicate the message you want within the short time available. If you have a clear idea of what you want to say, then all you need to do is render this idea into the form of a song. Plus, if you have a clear idea of what you're saying, the listener will be more likely to have a clear idea of what is being said to them. If you aren't sure what your song is about, the listener has no chance. i think there is a lot to be said for writing without clear intent, and ambiguity...why do you need to know what its about, and songs mean different things to different people. writing with a clearly defined topic can be a stifling approach as it takes away any non-linear, absurdist, surreal and subliminal stories the best stories in songs i have written have always come when writing idly without a topic. __________________ O G MUDBONE: Only You can prevent forest fires.

08-15-2008, 11:11 AM	#65 (permalink)
Whatsitoosit Bringer of Carrots Join Date: May 2008 Location: New York, NY Posts: 648	You know after I posted that Fire I sort of regretted saying it. I don't mind ALL rhymes that aren't exactly rhymes but it just bugs me when it sounds forced is what I was getting at. After I posted that I was listening to something where it was a "rough rhyme" as you put it, and it was actually quite clever. __________________ "It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face."

08-15-2008, 05:24 PM	#66 (permalink)
FireInCairo Later on... Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Melbourne Posts: 1,235	Oh ok i get more what you mean yeah that force the syllables into rhyme thing is awful but two similar words with common assonance works quite well __________________ O G MUDBONE: Only You can prevent forest fires.

08-15-2008, 05:54 PM	#67 (permalink)
Halfa Allman Brothers Obsessor Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: The Whipping Post Posts: 260	hahaha i was writing this song and the first line was cool, but i didnt know where to go. so it ended up being this really weird song about an epic battle that involves two people stronger than the gods and blah blah blah blah blah. i ended up ripping up the whole thing and starting over. its an anti war song now. but i used some really really weird rhymes in it..................... __________________ Check it out: www.myspace.com/sdotldotidotpdot Watch your step.

08-27-2008, 01:49 PM	#68 (permalink)
Whatsitoosit Bringer of Carrots Join Date: May 2008 Location: New York, NY Posts: 648	post it. __________________ "It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face."

08-27-2008, 05:12 PM	#69 (permalink)
Halfa Allman Brothers Obsessor Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: The Whipping Post Posts: 260	naw. i got pissed at it and scratched the whole thing. it was pretty bad. a few days of letting it sit and i tossed it out the window. it was in such bad condition not even life support woulda helped __________________ Check it out: www.myspace.com/sdotldotidotpdot Watch your step.

08-27-2008, 05:25 PM	#70 (permalink)
Whatsitoosit Bringer of Carrots Join Date: May 2008 Location: New York, NY Posts: 648	ahh, yeah... can't save em all. __________________ "It takes 43 muscles to frown and 17 to smile, but it doesn't take any to just sit there with a dumb look on your face."