Songwriting Tips Thread

salthevivid · 03-29-2016, 11:24 AM

If you ask me, lyrics arent even that important. Just scope beatles songs like "and I love her", "Come together" or "because" to name few, the lyrics are kinda dumb the songs are out of this world. Also, red hot chili peppers, and every pop song out there. Lyrics are often senseless and random. What really matters not what you say but HOW you say it.

Shadows5 · 04-12-2016, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by salthevivid

If you ask me, lyrics arent even that important. Just scope beatles songs like "and I love her", "Come together" or "because" to name few, the lyrics are kinda dumb the songs are out of this world. Also, red hot chili peppers, and every pop song out there. Lyrics are often senseless and random. What really matters not what you say but HOW you say it.

And the last line in your post is what is wrong with most music today if you ask me.

Ando · 05-06-2016, 03:51 PM

thanks for this i've been struggling with writing lyrics

Zitterbart · 05-09-2016, 08:01 AM

I find it often is a good idea to tell a story. With words and emotionally. You can for example use some simple chord progression and sing the first verse quietly, the second one 'normally', the third verse aggressively and the last one quietly again. Adapting to the content you are singing about.

Try this with different stylistic elements, and you may get some good ideas to put together into a great song.

Londongirl22 · 05-14-2016, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zitterbart

I find it often is a good idea to tell a story. With words and emotionally. You can for example use some simple chord progression and sing the first verse quietly, the second one 'normally', the third verse aggressively and the last one quietly again. Adapting to the content you are singing about.

Try this with different stylistic elements, and you may get some good ideas to put together into a great song.

Stockholm · 02-26-2017, 08:48 AM

I think salthevivid really hit on it. It really is about how you deliver. Like a chorus very often is repetitive, but I think it is meant to be. The Beatles were ingenious in making it work. When I try to mix up a chorus, it's, like, too much. I think the range should be in the overall message, and the balance is in a really cool repetitive chorus. Just saying.

GlamrockSam · 08-20-2017, 03:26 AM

I agree with a lot of the points covered on here already.

I have a few rules whenever I write lyrics:

1) Choruses translate better when they are simple to hear and sing.

2) Logical songwriting is less interesting. What I mean is if you try and tell a story just from memory, the chances are it will be boring.

Lateral Thinking techniques help you write from different perspectives. Read up on Edward DeBono for more info.

My bassist started talking about Alexander The Great whilst we working on lyrics. I know nothing about ATG, so there's no way I could use my bassist's perspective...

The song we were writing was about doing what you need to do, and ATG kicked a lot of ass taking over the world!

4) Write down an idea even if it's rubbish. You can then move on to the next idea. Also, sound out your lyrics to the rest of your band to see if they like it. If your band likes it, your fans will probably like it too.

5) Sometimes a lyric idea is so unlike what you've heard before. If idea's meaning is relevant to the song, You should probably use it

6) Once you have a ton of ideas out, you can start arranging them together, like jigsaw pieces. Use your intuition to judge which pieces should go where

7) Having a concrete idea for what you want to say is important, use the above techniques to find the most powerful and original way to say it.

8) Framing your story:

First verse establishes character, plot and problem (Guy wants to win).
Chorus gives the listeners something to remember the story by (I'm a Winner).
Second Verse adds more to the story (Guy is winning more).
2nd Chorus. (I'm a Winner)
Middle 8s usually have a resolution but that's the beauty of creativity and storytelling(Guy loses...)
Third and Final Chorus (I'm a Winner)

9) Do some research on memory. 'Your Brain on Music' by Daniel Levitin shows that humans remember the contour of a melody first. Make sure your lyrics fit melodies that have a memorable contour.

Visual / Sensual story telling also tends to be easier to memorize, so incorporate those ideas. A cliche would be 'Feast your eyes' or 'taste the pain'.

After writing these rules out, a song idea popped into my head: Brick Wall. Simple, Visual, and you can tell a story about over coming brick walls, a metaphor for struggle. A metaphor for being rejected by a crush? Who knows

~~Goddess_kadii~~ · 02-23-2021, 12:39 PM

I love how you covered the full spectrum of the music writing process!

Mucha na Dziko · 05-19-2021, 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shadows5

And the last line in your post is what is wrong with most music today if you ask me.

You mean that the lyrics are nonsensical?

bob_32_116 · 11-22-2021, 01:43 AM

I recommend Jimmy Webb's book, Tunesmit6h.
Early on in the book, he says if you don't have songwriting talent, the book won't give it to you - but if you do, the book will help you make the most of that talent and avoid mistakes.

05-09-2016, 08:01 AM	#164 (permalink)
Zitterbart Groupie Join Date: May 2016 Location: Germany Posts: 22	I find it often is a good idea to tell a story. With words and emotionally. You can for example use some simple chord progression and sing the first verse quietly, the second one 'normally', the third verse aggressively and the last one quietly again. Adapting to the content you are singing about. Try this with different stylistic elements, and you may get some good ideas to put together into a great song. __________________ Turtles are fast. Turtles are dangerous!

03-29-2016, 11:24 AM	#161 (permalink)
salthevivid Groupie Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 2	If you ask me, lyrics arent even that important. Just scope beatles songs like "and I love her", "Come together" or "because" to name few, the lyrics are kinda dumb the songs are out of this world. Also, red hot chili peppers, and every pop song out there. Lyrics are often senseless and random. What really matters not what you say but HOW you say it.

05-06-2016, 03:51 PM	#163 (permalink)
Ando Groupie Join Date: Mar 2016 Posts: 13	thanks for this i've been struggling with writing lyrics

02-26-2017, 08:48 AM	#166 (permalink)
Stockholm Groupie Join Date: Feb 2017 Posts: 30	I think salthevivid really hit on it. It really is about how you deliver. Like a chorus very often is repetitive, but I think it is meant to be. The Beatles were ingenious in making it work. When I try to mix up a chorus, it's, like, too much. I think the range should be in the overall message, and the balance is in a really cool repetitive chorus. Just saying.

08-20-2017, 03:26 AM	#167 (permalink)
GlamrockSam Groupie Join Date: Jul 2017 Posts: 6	I agree with a lot of the points covered on here already. I have a few rules whenever I write lyrics: 1) Choruses translate better when they are simple to hear and sing. 2) Logical songwriting is less interesting. What I mean is if you try and tell a story just from memory, the chances are it will be boring. Lateral Thinking techniques help you write from different perspectives. Read up on Edward DeBono for more info. My bassist started talking about Alexander The Great whilst we working on lyrics. I know nothing about ATG, so there's no way I could use my bassist's perspective... The song we were writing was about doing what you need to do, and ATG kicked a lot of ass taking over the world! 4) Write down an idea even if it's rubbish. You can then move on to the next idea. Also, sound out your lyrics to the rest of your band to see if they like it. If your band likes it, your fans will probably like it too. 5) Sometimes a lyric idea is so unlike what you've heard before. If idea's meaning is relevant to the song, You should probably use it 6) Once you have a ton of ideas out, you can start arranging them together, like jigsaw pieces. Use your intuition to judge which pieces should go where 7) Having a concrete idea for what you want to say is important, use the above techniques to find the most powerful and original way to say it. 8) Framing your story: First verse establishes character, plot and problem (Guy wants to win). Chorus gives the listeners something to remember the story by (I'm a Winner). Second Verse adds more to the story (Guy is winning more). 2nd Chorus. (I'm a Winner) Middle 8s usually have a resolution but that's the beauty of creativity and storytelling(Guy loses...) Third and Final Chorus (I'm a Winner) 9) Do some research on memory. 'Your Brain on Music' by Daniel Levitin shows that humans remember the contour of a melody first. Make sure your lyrics fit melodies that have a memorable contour. Visual / Sensual story telling also tends to be easier to memorize, so incorporate those ideas. A cliche would be 'Feast your eyes' or 'taste the pain'. After writing these rules out, a song idea popped into my head: Brick Wall. Simple, Visual, and you can tell a story about over coming brick walls, a metaphor for struggle. A metaphor for being rejected by a crush? Who knows

02-23-2021, 12:39 PM	#168 (permalink)
~~Goddess_kadii~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Washington DC Posts: 2	I love how you covered the full spectrum of the music writing process!

11-22-2021, 01:43 AM	#170 (permalink)
bob_32_116 Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: 32S 116E Posts: 324	I recommend Jimmy Webb's book, Tunesmit6h. Early on in the book, he says if you don't have songwriting talent, the book won't give it to you - but if you do, the book will help you make the most of that talent and avoid mistakes.