Neil Young

Howard the Duck · 10-18-2012, 10:34 PM

keep all these Young vs Dylan discussions in the proper forum, not here

here, we only talk about Young

Surell · 10-18-2012, 11:45 PM

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Originally Posted by blastingas10

Nobody said Anything about "leopard skin pillbox hat".

You have in another thread, you'll just have to give me while to dig through that particular thread.

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And I don't think anyone claimed that Dylan could play electric guitar like young. All I ever said is that there are acoustic fingerpicking Dylan songs that are harder to play than some of youngs electric guitar solos.

I didn't say Bob can't play like Neil; I said no one can play like Neil, and I appreciate that more. Bob may have that technicality, and that's great from a 1's and 0's standpoint. I'm sure it's true, and I'll give you that point, but I would still assert that Neil was a lot more interesting, involved, and unique in his soloing or guitar playing in general. You may find it stagnant, which is understandable- Mastodon's overall style has never seriously shifted, and i've heard people bash this before- but i'm a sucker for it if they just happen to be good enough at that style.

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If you think "ambulance blues" is better than "visions if Johanna", then that's fine, it doesn't make sense to me but whatever.

no really.

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On the other hand, claiming that all the Dylan you've heard is "relentlessly cliche", well, that's quite a claim.

i'm kind of a risk taker.

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Dylan is the master, according to young himself. Sure, nobody really sounds like Neil, but nobody sounds like Dylan either. Unless you're talking about his very early music. Bob was much more original, in my opinion. After all, he came first and was a big influence on young.

I'm sure he was very original in his time, but i can't say i would feel the same way now with the hindsight granted to me. I've never heard someone who sounds quite like Neil, even Mascis controlled Dinosaur Jr. Bob just hasn't quite stood the test of time for me, except lyrically of course.

And as i've said, I don't feel like Dylan's music is as essential. If you took the music away, the lyrics would still be poetry, sure, and i really wouldn't miss the music that much. I realize that Neil contradicts this in the quote below, but just because he may have learned that from Bob doesn't mean he didn't nail it down more efficiently. There are plenty of bands today who do better at what the pioneers took on before, and it seems pretty natural to me.

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I'm not saying its absurd to say young is better, it's understandable. I have tons of respect for them both. To generalize my feelings of them both, I can agree Neil is the better guitar player. But at the same time, they're just different. I suppose that really loud, crashing style of Neil just stands out more to some. But I can appreciate the more subtle and reserved playing of Bob. And like I've mentioned, there are Dylan songs that are harder to play than some Neil solos. As far as songwriting goes, I think Neil was on Bobs level from time to time, bit overall Bob is quite a bit better. Some of Neil's songs just really bore me with mediocrity. And I also hold the rather controversial opinion that Dylan was the better singer. Youngs voice was monotonous at time, and rather weak. I think Dylan had a lot more power in his voice. All Neil had was that falsetto, which was great. However, Neil's voice has lasted a lot longer, no denying that.

At this point, all i can really say is that i would invert almost everything you say here. But i still say, yes, Young may not have the technicality. To be honest, I doubt Young has much anything technical going on in his music; it's usually more on the experimental noise side, or straight ahead rock, or folky country jams; none of it's made for technicality so much. But i admire how he likes to **** it up on things, like his "A Day in the Life" cover (a really good performance at Glastonbury
here), or the aforementioned Broken Arrow, or especially his live versions of Tonight's the Night (which can be found on Weld if you'd like a copy). Now I won't comment too much on the voices, i actually do like them both pretty well; but i will say that i find more people that sound like Dylan (Lou Reed or that guy from Dire Straits at least on that one song) than who sound like Neil. It just comes back to the fact that since there isn't much i know of that sounds a lot like Neil, i find it more unique or essential or whatever. And that may well prove Bob's massive influence over Neil's, but whatever.

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To expound on that young quote I referenced:

In an extensive interview in TIME Magazine, in September 2005, interviewer JOSH TYRANGIEL asks Young who's the best musician he has ever seen and the standard for what he does?

YOUNG: "Bob Dylan, I'll never be Bob Dylan. He's the master. If I'd like to be anyone, it's him. And he's a great writer, true to his music and done what he feels is the right thing to do for years and years and years. He's great. He's the one I look to. I'm always interested in what he's doing now, or did last, or did a long time ago that I didn't find out about. The guy has written some of the greatest poetry and put it to music in a way that it touched me, and other people have done that, but not so consistently or as intensely. Like me, he waits around and keeps going, and he knows that he doesn't have the muse all the time, but he knows that it'll come back and it'll visit him and he'll have his moment."

That's great and i don't doubt it, but you can still do better than whoever comes before you, and i believe he has.

blastingas10 · 10-19-2012, 12:20 AM

Well it's been a good talk, well have to agree to disagree. I just want to make one thing clear, I love Neil young. I don't disagree with anything you say about him (well, almost anything), I probably admire him just as much as you. It's just come off that I don't because I'm trying to say Dylan is better, pretty much

They both have their own qualities that make them different from each other. I love them both.
I guess what really makes me like Dylan more is that I feel Dylan has done it a lot more consistently than young.

I really disagree with your take on the actual music of Bob Dylan. Have you heard "blood on the tracks"? There is some really great music on that album. You have great instrumentation in songs like "youre a big girl now" and "if you see her say hello". Not to mention the lyrics, and the melody in "if you see her...". The way he raises his voice in certain parts like when he says "and though our seperation". The little twang he uses when he says "like lovers often will". It's little things like that that I really love about his music. Songs like "you're gonna make me lonesome when you go", That's a song where I admit, the guitar playing is irrelevant, but the melody is so strong that it makes the song great. I'll take Blood on the Tracks over and Young album, easily.

But enough of the young vs Dylan talk, for now.

I somewhat enjoy it, though. Discussing two artists I love so much. You seem to really like Neil, and all I can say is I like your style.

Surell · 10-19-2012, 12:39 AM

I've heard Blood on the Tracks referred to as the album where Dylan was trying to become the new Dylan in some circles, which sounds like an interesting idea, so i'll have to check it out. But he'll have to bring some pretty gorgeous melodies if he's gonna beat something as pretty as After the Gold Rush or On the Beach. Plus, point me to a line where Bob gets down with something like "Welfare mothers make better lovers."

But I'll be sure to check out some of the stuff you've mentioned, it'd only be fair since i am truly arguing pretty blindly right now. I will have to concede, though, that they are very different artists, especially in terms of subtlety vs. explosiveness, but I think Neil's practical abstraction or even ambience in some of his lyrics, like "Fuckin Up" or Broken Arrow (yeah, again), or even "Don't Cry No Tears Around Me" is just really compelling.

But I say all this because Neil's been my singular jam recently- i even just got a Zuma recreation poster at the Melvins show nearby and tried to talk up the band and their artist about Neil. I'm such a dork.

blastingas10 · 10-19-2012, 12:57 AM

Oh Ya, Ive always thought the vocals in the America song "horse with no name" sounds a little like neil.

It's funny you mention "on the beach". I was just playin that song on my guitar literally seconds before I read that recent post. Such a great song it is. I was also just playing "tell me why". One of the most touching Neil songs, in my opinion.

I'm not saying you will find melodies like "after the gold rush". That song just makes me want to cry sometimes when I'm listening to it alone. Like I mentioned earlier, it's not usually the melody that I love about Dylans music. It's usually just the emotion that I feel coming from his music. A song like "if you see he say hello" is just so personal and I feel like there is just emotion and sincerity oozing from the song. I guess I just have that emotional connection with his music.

Surell · 10-19-2012, 01:06 AM

:/ America doesn't count because.

Yeah, "On the Beach" is pretty heavy, that whole second side of the album is just raw. Gotta love stuff like "For the Turnstiles" too, I personally hear a lot of Tom Waits in that one, and the imagery on "Revolution Blues" is pretty chill inducing.

I had "After the Gold Rush" on spin for awhile, i even used it as credits music for a short film i did. But that whole album is rife with great melodies, of course you got "Tell Me Why," but i think "Southern Man"'s melody is pretty sharp and catchy, as well as "Cripple Creek Ferry," "When You Dance yada yada," and really just the whole album.

blastingas10 · 10-19-2012, 01:23 AM

"for the turnstiles" is another one of my favorites.

I saw buffalo Springfield last year. That tour was canceled shortly after that show. I feel really honored to be a part of one of the few crowds who has seen them in the last 40-50 years. Got to hear "I am a child", "broken arrow", "on the way home", "kind woman", just to name a few. They closed it with "keep on rockin in the free world".

As much as I love neil I've always felt he overshadowed Stephen stills and stills didn't get as much credit as he deserves. Stills is a phenomenal guitarist and wrote some really great songs from time to time. It was great to see them together in person.

Colby4780 · 10-20-2012, 10:23 AM

Just picked up Harvest Moon, only after one listen I am still undecided on how much I like it. But I have a feeling that after more listens it will really grow on me.

Rock N' Roll Clown · 10-20-2012, 05:17 PM

Harvest Moon is a wonderful album. You'll love it. Actually, Harvest Moon is maybe my favorite song of his.

I just listened to Old Ways and after listening to stuff like Re-ac-tor and Trans I was stunned how good can Neil Young be. I liked almost every song on the album which I didn't expect because I've never heard someone to talk about the album or to praise it.

Colby4780 · 10-20-2012, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rock N' Roll Clown

Harvest Moon is a wonderful album. You'll love it. Actually, Harvest Moon is maybe my favorite song of his.

I just listened to Old Ways and after listening to stuff like Re-ac-tor and Trans I was stunned how good can Neil Young be. I liked almost every song on the album which I didn't expect because I've never heard someone to talk about the album or to praise it.

Glad to see a positive review. This is my first real album of his I have ever owned. What should I pick up next?

10-20-2012, 05:17 PM	#139 (permalink)
Rock N' Roll Clown Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Bulgaria Posts: 169	Harvest Moon is a wonderful album. You'll love it. Actually, Harvest Moon is maybe my favorite song of his. I just listened to Old Ways and after listening to stuff like Re-ac-tor and Trans I was stunned how good can Neil Young be. I liked almost every song on the album which I didn't expect because I've never heard someone to talk about the album or to praise it. __________________

10-19-2012, 12:20 AM	#133 (permalink)
blastingas10 Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,126	Well it's been a good talk, well have to agree to disagree. I just want to make one thing clear, I love Neil young. I don't disagree with anything you say about him (well, almost anything), I probably admire him just as much as you. It's just come off that I don't because I'm trying to say Dylan is better, pretty much They both have their own qualities that make them different from each other. I love them both. I guess what really makes me like Dylan more is that I feel Dylan has done it a lot more consistently than young. I really disagree with your take on the actual music of Bob Dylan. Have you heard "blood on the tracks"? There is some really great music on that album. You have great instrumentation in songs like "youre a big girl now" and "if you see her say hello". Not to mention the lyrics, and the melody in "if you see her...". The way he raises his voice in certain parts like when he says "and though our seperation". The little twang he uses when he says "like lovers often will". It's little things like that that I really love about his music. Songs like "you're gonna make me lonesome when you go", That's a song where I admit, the guitar playing is irrelevant, but the melody is so strong that it makes the song great. I'll take Blood on the Tracks over and Young album, easily. But enough of the young vs Dylan talk, for now. I somewhat enjoy it, though. Discussing two artists I love so much. You seem to really like Neil, and all I can say is I like your style.

10-19-2012, 12:57 AM	#135 (permalink)
blastingas10 Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,126	Oh Ya, Ive always thought the vocals in the America song "horse with no name" sounds a little like neil. It's funny you mention "on the beach". I was just playin that song on my guitar literally seconds before I read that recent post. Such a great song it is. I was also just playing "tell me why". One of the most touching Neil songs, in my opinion. I'm not saying you will find melodies like "after the gold rush". That song just makes me want to cry sometimes when I'm listening to it alone. Like I mentioned earlier, it's not usually the melody that I love about Dylans music. It's usually just the emotion that I feel coming from his music. A song like "if you see he say hello" is just so personal and I feel like there is just emotion and sincerity oozing from the song. I guess I just have that emotional connection with his music.

10-19-2012, 01:23 AM	#137 (permalink)
blastingas10 Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 2,126	"for the turnstiles" is another one of my favorites. I saw buffalo Springfield last year. That tour was canceled shortly after that show. I feel really honored to be a part of one of the few crowds who has seen them in the last 40-50 years. Got to hear "I am a child", "broken arrow", "on the way home", "kind woman", just to name a few. They closed it with "keep on rockin in the free world". As much as I love neil I've always felt he overshadowed Stephen stills and stills didn't get as much credit as he deserves. Stills is a phenomenal guitarist and wrote some really great songs from time to time. It was great to see them together in person.

10-20-2012, 10:23 AM	#138 (permalink)
Colby4780 Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Atlanta Posts: 89	Just picked up Harvest Moon, only after one listen I am still undecided on how much I like it. But I have a feeling that after more listens it will really grow on me.