Def Leppard

sopsych · 11-18-2012, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

Batlord, I have analyzed your analysis of my analysis, and I have concluded that your view is partly correct. Many Def Leppard lyrics *are* intended to create fun music for fun times. (You're also correct that I do derive pleasure from giving thought to Def Leppard lyrics.

)

Your post made me curious about Def Leppard's view of their own lyrics and music. I found what I feel is an excellent and amusing interview with Joe Elliott:
Def Leppard’s Joe Elliott Can’t Explain the Lyrics to “Pour Some Sugar on Me” | MTV Hive.

The interview shows that Def Leppard were mostly trying to make fun songs for fun times...but they also had some serious songs, such as "From the Inside" about addiction. Joe Elliott also didn't want to tell people the exact meanings of their lyrics: "That ruins the fun of it. It’s like playing hide and seek and telling them where you’re hiding. It’s pointless." They wanted people to use their imagination when interpreting lyrics. Isn't that nice?

Reading this Def Leppard interview, I also learned (and this was even more surprising to me than the fact that drummer Rick Allen has only one arm) that...

Def Leppard has two and a half vegans!!!

I never knew that Phil Collen and one-armed drummer Rick Allen are vegans, while Vivian Campbell is a "lactopescovegetarian" (he eats fish but no red meat). Joe Elliott comments about their backstage vegetarian cuisine: "Yeah. Rock and roll, right? [Laughs.] We’re born to be mild." <-- Cute.

Perhaps Phil Collen's vegetarianism provided a little inspiration for writing the song "Animal" back in the '80s. My view is that there are always reasons for something. We can't always identify the reasons, but I like to try.

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Yes, "Animal" uses many metaphors relating to animals (circus, running wolf) to represent passion and desire. I don't find the lyrics irritating because they stretch my mind a little. My favorite line, though, is "such a lust for life" because that broadens the song's topic to more than just physical lust. The line makes me ask myself if it describes the singer or the person lusted after (I always assumed the latter). My point is that the lyrics at least make me think.

I also appreciate how the message of excitement is supported by the powerful, energized sound of the music. Def Leppard's sound from the '80s and early '90s was very distinctive to me. Joe Elliott writes, "We absolutely apply the science of rock in the recording studio to make our records sound massive and bombastic."

Your post made me realize I've never heard any of the songs off the "Slang" album or learned how Def Leppard changed their sound in the '90s. I listened to the song "Slang" and the starts of a few others off the album. They aren't bad but they didn't grip me as much as their earlier songs.

I also learned that Def Leppard consider themselves a "British rock band" and not heavy metal or a hair band. I thought you'd appreciate this quote, since it has to do with hair

:

Joe Elliott: "We’re rock. It’s a vast difference [from metal]. AC/DC are metal, Van Halen aren’t metal. And neither are they a hair band, but they’ve got hair. If it’s the difference between being a hair band and a bald band, yes, we’re a hair band. But musically, we’re a British rock band, end of story."

If it's the difference between being a hair band and a bald band, then they're a hair band!

I like these Def Leppard guys.

What if I told you that Joe Elliot and Rick Allen each have been arrested for domestic violence?

But, yeah, there's a certain charm and humor to the band, which seems to come largely from Joe. And the vegetarian stuff is a surprise to me - an article says Rick Allen made the switch right after the accident. Maybe the band members are weirder and smarter than many other rock stars. Working with Mutt Lange (who also produced Heartbeat City by The Cars and 4 by Foreigner) definitely was a great choice - and the decline began when he backed away.

The though-provoking lyrics probably is the best point above. Not that Def Leppard ever wrote great lyrics, but in the heyday they were consistently interesting and usually humorous or genuinely emotional. Or, once in a while, philosophical, like "Gods of Wars," which is my favorite post-Pyromania album track. With almost all songs - "Make Love Like a Man" being a silly exception - worded mysterious enough to invite repeat listens. More on that later.

DropThaSystem · 11-18-2012, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I wouldn't go that far. They were okay.

Well, I suppose you're right. I'm just saying that I think they are one of the best, which would be somewhere in the Top 100 List. There are PLENTY of better 80's bands, though.

VEGANGELICA · 11-18-2012, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

What if I told you that Joe Elliot and Rick Allen each have been arrested for domestic violence?

But, yeah, there's a certain charm and humor to the band, which seems to come largely from Joe. And the vegetarian stuff is a surprise to me - an article says Rick Allen made the switch right after the accident. Maybe the band members are weirder and smarter than many other rock stars. Working with Mutt Lange (who also produced Heartbeat City by The Cars and 4 by Foreigner) definitely was a great choice - and the decline began when he backed away.

The though-provoking lyrics probably is the best point above. Not that Def Leppard ever wrote great lyrics, but in the heyday they were consistently interesting and usually humorous or genuinely emotional. Or, once in a while, philosophical, like "Gods of Wars," which is my favorite post-Pyromania album track. With almost all songs - "Make Love Like a Man" being a silly exception - worded mysterious enough to invite repeat listens. More on that later.

The first thing I'd say after hearing that Rick Allen and Joe Elliott were arrested for domestic violence is...

NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

Now that I've looked up the circumstances surrounding their arrest (My Def Leppard and Well-known domestic violence victims), and have read Joe Elliott's account of what happened in both of those cases (Metal Hammer: Def Leppard ), I think with sympathy and sadness that sometimes people don't learn how to express their anger without being physical, and that if the couples were able to patch up the problems and Rick Allen and Joe Elliott fixed their issues and learned how to control themselves, then I'm glad for them and their families. I would not want to hold their past behavior against them now.

I also wonder if rock stars are more likely than the general public to resort to physical violence because they are so used to the power of being listened to on stage and expressing their emotions physically. I have always assumed that music supports peaceful human interactions...but maybe, in the case of some music, it riles people's psyches up and makes them *more* likely to choose to act out physically when they feel anger.

* *

I like the thought of lyrics being worded mysteriously such that they invite repeat listens. If lyrics are too mysterious and they make no sense, then they become uninteresting to me; but if they are too obvious and easy to understand, then unless they are emotionally compelling they might become boring.

* *

I hadn't realized that a music group's producer could make such a difference in their music choices and success (which reflects that I really don't know what a "producer" does).

I just read about John "Mutt" Lange and see that his hand is deep in many musicians' creations besides those of Def Leppard, Foreigner, and the Cars: "He produced albums for artists such as AC/DC, Def Leppard, The Boomtown Rats, Graham Parker and the Rumour, Outlaws, Foreigner, The Cars, Bryan Adams, Billy Ocean, Savoy Brown, The Corrs and Nickelback. He also wrote and produced songs with Canadian country singer and ex-wife Shania Twain. Her 1997 album Come on Over, which he produced, is the all time best selling album by a female artist. Lange's latest project is a song on Lady Gaga's second studio album Born This Way, titled 'You and I.'" Robert John "Mutt" Lange - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I wonder what knowledge Mutt Lange has about how the public responds to music that has helped his clients' songs be so successful. The article says he co-wrote most of the songs on Def Leppard's High 'n' Dry, Pyromania, Hysteria, and Adrenalize. I didn't realize that producers are also sometimes co-writers of the music. I think Mutt must have good knowledge about how to make "hits." Either that, or he is good at recognizing bands that have the music potential already there, and so then he helps them accentuate it.

Hey...get this...I also learned that Mutt Lange is a strict vegetarian!

(Our slow plot to take over the world is working.

)

* * *

EDIT: NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I just learned that Def Leppard's former producer, vegetarian Mutt Lange, had a full-out affair with wife Shania Twain's friend, denying the whole thing until they were discovered! On the positive side, Shania later married Fred, the friend's former husband, and Shania and Fred (below) seem very happy.

sopsych · 11-19-2012, 11:31 AM

Strange but true: when I first went online today, a story about Vivien Campbell getting divorced randomly popped up.

I thought the two domestic violence incidents happened earlier, but I correctly recalled they were within a short time of each other. I had no heard any explanations before. Maybe it's because musicians generally are volatile and very stressed at times - or maybe domestic violence is no different in frequency or reasons than for regular people.

As for producers' influences, many are musicians themselves, so it isn't rare that they help with lyrics. The problem with Mutt Lange is that he isn't good with lyrics. Maybe he boosted the humor in some Def Leppard songs, but I doubt he increased their depth. On Waking Up the Neighbors, many of the songs co-written with Lange are some of the worst of Bryan Adams' career, though mostly lyrically respectable songs were the album's singles.

The Batlord · 11-19-2012, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

EDIT: NOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!

I just learned that Def Leppard's former producer, vegetarian Mutt Lange, had a full-out affair with wife Shania Twain's friend, denying the whole thing until they were discovered! On the positive side, Shania later married Fred, the friend's former husband, and Shania and Fred (below) seem very happy.

Is it just me, or is he prettier than her?

**Scarlett O'Hara** · 11-20-2012, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

Strange but true: when I first went online today, a story about Vivien Campbell getting divorced randomly popped up.

I thought the two domestic violence incidents happened earlier, but I correctly recalled they were within a short time of each other. I had no heard any explanations before. Maybe it's because musicians generally are volatile and very stressed at times - or maybe domestic violence is no different in frequency or reasons than for regular people.

As for producers' influences, many are musicians themselves, so it isn't rare that they help with lyrics. The problem with Mutt Lange is that he isn't good with lyrics. Maybe he boosted the humor in some Def Leppard songs, but I doubt he increased their depth. On Waking Up the Neighbors, many of the songs co-written with Lange are some of the worst of Bryan Adams' career, though mostly lyrically respectable songs were the album's singles.

How can playing Pour Some Sugar On Me stressful?

VEGANGELICA · 11-20-2012, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

Strange but true: when I first went online today, a story about Vivien Campbell getting divorced randomly popped up.

I thought the two domestic violence incidents happened earlier, but I correctly recalled they were within a short time of each other. I had no heard any explanations before. Maybe it's because musicians generally are volatile and very stressed at times - or maybe domestic violence is no different in frequency or reasons than for regular people.

As for producers' influences, many are musicians themselves, so it isn't rare that they help with lyrics. The problem with Mutt Lange is that he isn't good with lyrics. Maybe he boosted the humor in some Def Leppard songs, but I doubt he increased their depth. On Waking Up the Neighbors, many of the songs co-written with Lange are some of the worst of Bryan Adams' career, though mostly lyrically respectable songs were the album's singles.

I just read about Vivien Campbell's divorce from his wife of 25 years.

It's always hard to know when people divorce what is really going on, since there can be stresses unseen by the public such as verbal or physical abuse...but from the *outside* it simply looks like Vivien (love that name!) fell in love with a younger woman and so is dumping his wife. It's strange that Vivien Campbell is filing for full custody of their two children. That doesn't sound in their best interest, and so I'm suspicious of his motives.

Well, at least Phil Collen still seems happily married (now)! Relationship breakdowns are hard, so I wouldn't wish them on anyone.

I'm curious now about Bryan Adams' songs co-written with Mutt Lange. Ah, "Everything I do I do it for you" and "All For Love" are two.

I'm guessing that the frequencing of domestic violence perpetrated by rock stars is no greater than that of the general population, but it just seems to me that it is because rock stars get so much press and attention (like from me, here, in this thread!).

About Def Leppard's recent music: I read that Def Leppard rerecorded "Pour Some Sugar On Me" and "Rock of Ages" to retain control of their hits after a major disagreement with their ex-record label about the digital rights for their back catalog.

Have you heard these recent remakes? I felt they were very well done but not quite as good as the original recordings because the remakes sound a little too clean and not quite as powerful, but they are still very interesting to hear (which you can do at this website):

Def Leppard's New Versions of 'Pour Some Sugar on Me' and 'Rock of Ages' -- Double Premiere - Noisecreep

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Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Is it just me, or is he prettier than her?

I don't think it is just you!

But I think Def Leppard's former producer Lange's wife Shania and his lover's former husband Fred are *both* very pretty. IMO they are a much better match than Mutt Lange and Shania were physically.

Def Leppard should sing a song about Shania and Fred! A real love song, not one of their contrived ones.

The Batlord · 11-20-2012, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VEGANGELICA

Alright, never mind. He's actually kinda fugly. He shouldn't smile. Ever.

sopsych · 11-20-2012, 12:27 PM

I dredged up some information on how Mutt Lange writes. Or at least how he did with Bryan Adams (who by the way sounds a little like Joe Elliot).
Bryan Adams Interview | Bryan Adams Anthology | Bryan Adams Songs
Based on Mutt's work with Adams and Shania Twain, I'd say he maxes out at generic love songs and never makes lyrics great.

Anyway, back to Def Leppard specifically, I'd heard of the remakes before, but had not listened to them, because I'm against all that. Joe Elliot's voice has deteriorated, and it's erratic. The "Rock of Ages" remake makes that too clear. The remake also lacks the musical layering that helped make old Def Leppard songs great.

FRED HALE SR. · 11-20-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sopsych

I dredged up some information on how Mutt Lange writes. Or at least how he did with Bryan Adams (who by the way sounds a little like Joe Elliot).
Bryan Adams Interview | Bryan Adams Anthology | Bryan Adams Songs
Based on Mutt's work with Adams and Shania Twain, I'd say he maxes out at generic love songs and never makes lyrics great.

Anyway, back to Def Leppard specifically, I'd heard of the remakes before, but had not listened to them, because I'm against all that. Joe Elliot's voice has deteriorated, and it's erratic. The "Rock of Ages" remake makes that too clear. The remake also lacks the musical layering that helped make old Def Leppard songs great.

That is truly what made their albums quality. You can always hear the multi-layer effect on the guitars. The vocals and drum tracks were always the right volume to compensate for that and it made their recordings amazing even if the songs were just pop rock diddies. I never thought this conversation on Def Leppard would get so many hits, I guess people are changing their ways on one armed drummers.

11-19-2012, 11:31 AM	#154 (permalink)
sopsych Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: indoors Posts: 722	Strange but true: when I first went online today, a story about Vivien Campbell getting divorced randomly popped up. I thought the two domestic violence incidents happened earlier, but I correctly recalled they were within a short time of each other. I had no heard any explanations before. Maybe it's because musicians generally are volatile and very stressed at times - or maybe domestic violence is no different in frequency or reasons than for regular people. As for producers' influences, many are musicians themselves, so it isn't rare that they help with lyrics. The problem with Mutt Lange is that he isn't good with lyrics. Maybe he boosted the humor in some Def Leppard songs, but I doubt he increased their depth. On Waking Up the Neighbors, many of the songs co-written with Lange are some of the worst of Bryan Adams' career, though mostly lyrically respectable songs were the album's singles.

11-20-2012, 12:27 PM	#159 (permalink)
sopsych Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: indoors Posts: 722	I dredged up some information on how Mutt Lange writes. Or at least how he did with Bryan Adams (who by the way sounds a little like Joe Elliot). Bryan Adams Interview \| Bryan Adams Anthology \| Bryan Adams Songs Based on Mutt's work with Adams and Shania Twain, I'd say he maxes out at generic love songs and never makes lyrics great. Anyway, back to Def Leppard specifically, I'd heard of the remakes before, but had not listened to them, because I'm against all that. Joe Elliot's voice has deteriorated, and it's erratic. The "Rock of Ages" remake makes that too clear. The remake also lacks the musical layering that helped make old Def Leppard songs great.