"Led Zeppelin stole from African American musicians"

Blank. · 08-22-2016, 12:45 PM

Am I doing it right?

Key · 08-22-2016, 12:46 PM

Neapolitan · 08-22-2016, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

Here’s how I see it. Not exactly indicative of a SERIAL PLAGERIST.

1. Good Times Bad Times
2. Babe I’m Gonna Leave You
3. You Shook Me ***
4. Dazed and Confused
5. Your Time is Gonna Come
6. Black Mountain Side
7. Communication Breakdown
8. I Can’t Quit You Babe ***
9. How Many More Times
10. Whole Lotta Love
11. What is and What Should Never Be
12. The Lemon Song
13. Thank You
14. Heartbreaker
15. Living Loving Maid
16. Ramble On
17. Moby Dick
18. Bring it on Home
19. Immigrant Song
20. Friends
21. Celebration Day
22. Since I’ve Been Loving You
23. Out on the Tiles
24. Gallows Pole ***
25. Tangerine
26. That’s the Way
27. Bron-Y-Aur Stomp
28. Hats Off to Roy Harper
29. Black Dog
30. Rock and Roll
31. The Battle of Evermore
32. Stairway to Heaven
33. Misty Mountain Hop
34. Four Sticks
35. Going to California
36. When the Levee Breaks ***
37. The Song Remians the Same
38. The Rain Song
39. Over the Hills and Far Away
40. The Crunge
41. Dancing Days
42. D’Yer Mak’er
43. No Quarter
44. The Ocean
45. Custard Pie
46. The Rover
47. In My Time of Dying
48. Houses of the Holy
49. Trampled Underfoot
50. Kashmir
51. In the Light
52. Bron-Yr-Aur
53. Down by the Seaside
54. Ten Years Gone
55. Night Flight
56. The Wanton Song
57. Boogie With Stu
58. Black Country Woman
59. Sick Again
60. Achilles Last Stand
61. For Your Life
62. Royal Orleans
63. Noboy’s Fault But Mine
64. Candy Store Rock
65. Hots On for Nowhere
66. Tea For One
67. In the Evening
68. Sound Bound Saurez
69. Fool in the Rain
70. Hot Dog
71. Carouselambra
72. All My Love
73. I’m Gonna Crawl
74. We’re Gonna Groove ***
75. Poor Tom
76. Walter’s Walk
77. Ozone Baby
78. Darlene
79. Bonzo’s Montreux
80. Wearing and Tearing
81. Hey Hey What Can I Do

*** Credit given to others on original recordings

Dazed and Confused: Descending riff and lyrical cadence lifted.
Black Mountain Side: Should have been listed as Traditional
Whole Lotta Love: Some lyrics lifted.
Lemon Song: Some lyrics lifted
Bring it on Home: Intro and Outro lyrics lifted. Middle section completely original
Rock and Roll: Very loosely based on Good Golly Miss Molly
Boogie with Stu: Loosely based on Ooh my Head
Stairway to Heaven: 5 note descending intro riff lifted
Nobody’s Fault But Mine: Should have been listed as Traditional

2 – number of songs that should have been listed as Traditional
2 – number of songs where riffs were lifted
3 – number of songs where lyrics were lifted
2 – number of songs loosely based on other songs

Black Mountain Side - I personally think it was heavily borrowed from Bert Jansch. Jansch said that Page "ripped me off, didn't he? Or let's just say he learned from me."

Boogie with Stu - It was an homage to Ritchie Valens, not stolen from him. They heard his mother didn't get any royalties so they listed his mother on the credits to that tract, but they got sued anyway.

Chula Vista · 08-22-2016, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neapolitan

Black Mountain Side - I personally think it was heavily borrowed from Bert Jansch. Jansch said that Page "ripped me off, didn't he? Or let's just say he learned from me."

Boogie with Stu - It was an homage to Ritchie Valens, not stolen from him. They heard his mother didn't get any royalties so they listed his mother on the credits to that tract, but they got sued anyway.

Black Mountain Side was not written by Jansch. It's a traditional Celtic song named Down By Black Waterside that goes back ages. Jimmy did nick some of Bert's arrangement of it though.

Zep did offer Valen's mother some money but she got greedy and decided to sue them for the whole song. She lost the suit.

It's funny that folks at the time thought that there was some sort of rivalry going on between Zep and The Stones, when in fact they were quite close. Ian Stewart (the 6th Rolling Stone) played on this and also Rock n Roll. The Stones rented their mobile studio to Zep on a number of occasions and Jimmy Page played on The Stones' One Hit (To The Body).

Blank. · 08-22-2016, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

ftfy

JGuy Grungeman · 08-24-2016, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1blankmind

Didn't they also steal from white artists? Why so much focus on black people?

It didn't really have to be specifically black. They were stealing many blues songs, and blues was a very African-American genre. Off the top of my head, most blues artists I can think of (not counting blues rock albums) are black. Muddy Waters, Rosetta Tharpe, John Lee Hooker, B.B. King, Son House, Skip James, Fred McDowell, Howlin Wolf, Willie Dixon, Buddy Guy... Zeppelin were pretty much stealing from their leading influences.

Besides, Dazed and Confused was taken from a white guy.

Neapolitan · 08-24-2016, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

It didn't really have to be specifically black. They were stealing many blues songs, and blues was a very African-American genre. Off the top of my head, most blues artists I can think of (not counting blues rock albums) are black. Muddy Waters, Rosetta Tharpe, John Lee Hooker, B.B. King, Son House, Skip James, Fred McDowell, Howlin Wolf, Willie Dixon, Buddy Guy...

Give 'em hell, Harry!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

Zeppelin were pretty much stealing from their leading influences.

Besides, Dazed and Confused was taken from a white guy.

I think how a person feels about Zeppelin determines if they say "steal" or whatever. I side with Chula Vista that they didn't rightfully credit those artist. There's a saying I heard several times from guitar players that they "beg, borrow and steal." Folk artist, Blues artist borrowed from each other all the time. Led Zeppelin are no different than anyone else. However they made millions. So I guess that changes things a bit. I mean they should had known better, don't they have lawyers for that kinda stuff? I don't think Zeppelin are alone, there are examples all over Rock and Roll with people getting cheated and whatnot.

Did anyone else notice the intro of Sick Again sounds awful close to I'm Free by The Who? The the five strums, not the whole thing. I think the first second of each song are uncannily similar.

Sick Again

The Who - I'm Free 5 July 1969

Chula Vista · 08-24-2016, 02:28 PM

How about these?

All of the bigs bands of that era were unconsciously borrowing from each other.

Terrapin_Station · 08-24-2016, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elphenor

I'm more saying the music they produced was a ruined version of the blues

Are you a big blues fan?

==========================================

Page was also heavily influenced by Davey Graham. And speaking of "White Summer/Black Mountain Side:"

I'm a huge Zeppelin fan, though. And I love Davey Graham, too . . . and I bunch of other folks that Zeppelin were inspired by.

Neapolitan · 08-24-2016, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chula Vista

How about these?

All of the bigs bands of that era were unconsciously borrowing from each other.

Well Hip Shake Boogie is a Slim Harpo tune, so ZZ Top isn't borrowing from the Rolling Stones, Billy Gibbons is borrowing from one of his influences, Slim Harpo!

Slim Harpo - Shake Your Hips

The Rolling Stones also covers King Bee by Slim Harpo, on thier debut album.

08-24-2016, 02:28 PM	#18 (permalink)
Chula Vista Toasted Poster Join Date: Oct 2014 Location: SoCal by way of Boston Posts: 11,332	How about these? All of the bigs bands of that era were unconsciously borrowing from each other. __________________ “The fact that we live at the bottom of a deep gravity well, on the surface of a gas covered planet going around a nuclear fireball 90 million miles away and think this to be normal is obviously some indication of how skewed our perspective tends to be.”

08-22-2016, 12:45 PM	#11 (permalink)
Blank. Jacob Sartorius Join Date: May 2016 Location: Dank memes Posts: 4,033	Am I doing it right?

08-22-2016, 12:46 PM	#12 (permalink)
Key . Join Date: Dec 2010 Posts: 13,153