Frownland

Metal is a niche genre, but it's a massive enough genre with some of the most dedicated fans in music. I don't see metal dying out because people can't pick up the latest Liturgy album at Walmart.

__________________

Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

William_the_Bloody

I had just come back from the bar, when I wrote my last comment, so....uh.....I have no idea what I wrote, or how I got sucked into this argument in the first place.

In regards to Enter Sandman, all I am saying that it is healthy for a musical genre to get radio play and have some big recognizable bands.

Rap/Hip hop is a perfect example of genre that is able to have continued commercial success and still have a strong underground movement. The former initiates teenagers into the genre and the latter keeps their interest once their musical tastes mature.

Relying soley on indie labels is sure fire way to ensure that a musical genre is relegated to a small niche following, that in many cases eventually fades.

The Batlord

If by "people" you mean non-metal fans, then you're only really right about Back in Black, cause everybody else couldn't name a Sabbath album to save their lives. They might know "Iron Man" and "War Pigs", but I doubt they even know they're on the same album. Because they don't care.

And yet Slayer never sold as many records as the other Big Four. Why? Cause they didn't have a marketable sound. For the most part, I imagine the only people who cared were metal fans.

It already "died" when grunge hit. Thrash was dead, death metal was already starting to die, and black metal would die a few years later, leaving us with nu metal, and if you're satisfied with that then we're not friends.

Know what brought attention back to underground metal? The internet!

__________________

Frownland

@WTB Ok you go ahead and wait for metal to die out to the point where no one wants to make it while I go and listen to the great artists that are reigniting the genre.

__________________

Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

William_the_Bloody

If Sabbath was not on a major label they would never have had the fanbase they had.

The radio exposure of Iron Man and Paranoid opened the doors of metal & hard rock for thousands of people over the years. And even those who can't name a Sabbath album may enjoy Iron Man, Paranoid and other hard rock songs as a result.

I would argue that the Dead Kennedys are on the same talent level as Sabbath, if not more. They remained on an indie label and had an extremely large fanbase for an alternative band, but they never got the exposure that Sabbath did, and as a result the genre is nil.

Yes, but they were still signed to a major label. As were Portishead & Massive Attack, but because of the democratization of music and free downloading record companies can't afford to take a chances on bands like that anymore. Which is why there is no Slayer equivalent today.


No, I loathe Nu metal, but its popularity sparked a new generations interest in metal, and even during that period there were some decent hard rock/metal songs that got airplay (Orgy:Blue Monday, Coal Chamber: Shock the Monkey, Manson) ect !

Fair enough. You know what brought heavy metal back into the mainstream and supplied it with a large new fanbase of teenagers? Metalcore!

The Batlord

Got mad **** to do that I should be doing right now but I'm irresponsible, so I'll probably only be able to respond fully tomorrow. But I understand your points and don't disagree 100%. I just think your view of the internet's influence on music is skewed to the black and white, rather than the grey area. There are good and bad things to everything (f.ex. the Holocaust was obviously bad, but it also marginalized anti-Semitism to an extent that wouldn't have happened nearly as soon otherwise, which probably also had an effect on the Civil Rights movements in America), and I think you should take a step back and be a bit more objective.

__________________

William_the_Bloody

I tell you what I'm tired of arguing this so I'll throw in the towel and just say...

It isn't the internets influence on music I have a problem with, but the free downloading of music that makes it harder for musicians to survive. (Not to incriminate myself, but I'm far from a saint in this area.)

And to me the height of metal is rock songs with killer guitar riffs (Motley Crue: Shout at the Devil, Accept: Balls to the Wall) All the great metal artists historically got huge advances in $$$ to have top studio production time for their albums. I guarantee you Reign in Blood wouldn't sound half as good if they had been signed to some indie label like combat records.

I also have a tendency to view underground metal with genres that led to its decline as an isolated niche genre for a small group of fans (black/death metal) or something more esoteric & experimental.

Not that there is anything wrong with being a fan of these genres, but for myself personally, I can spend hours pouring over European influenced death metal albums, or black Viking pagan metal extra extra, until I actually find a song I want to listen to, while I could listen to almost every track on metallica's Kill em all over and over again.

Frownland

So is studio production more of a deal breaker for you than the actual music? I understand that having a record that isn't lofi helps its case, but generally I feel like I can look past that element if the music is good enough. Either way, I think that the recording quality from the time of Kill Em All (which actually has some pretty **** production tbh, although they did greatly improve after that album) is so dated in comparison to our current technology that someone can produce something of better audio quality than KEA or even The Black Album in their basement. Deriding indie labels because of that isn't entirely accurate these days because the equipment to make something sound good is far more affordable.

__________________

Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth.

roscoe_the_first

I love rock and roll

__________________
Roscoe

The Batlord

Rust in Peace or Master of Puppets? There is much riding on your answer.

__________________