Rock Album Survivor

**Frownland** · 01-30-2016, 12:32 PM

So because post rock led to the development of other genres, it's a cohesive and singular type of genre. Interesting perspective there, mate.

JGuy Grungeman · 01-30-2016, 12:40 PM

Well, post-punk does have little distinctions to it. Bat's argument could more easily apply to art punk, since art punk is very experimental. Yet, we can still tell an art punk album from a post-punk album and that from a hardcore album.

Most forms of punk are more restircted, but the point of some of them are to experiment. And if one experimental genre is different from the other, than they are separate genres or movements.

**Frownland** · 01-30-2016, 12:44 PM

I think you have a little too much confidence in your ability for distinguishing the two. Afer all, you put The Fall, Television, PIL, and Wire on the art punk list when they'e all post punk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

And anyone can finish that. As for Art Punk...

1. Television - Marque Moon
2. Wire - Pink Flag
3. Talking Heads - 77
4. The Fall
5. Cardiacs - On Land and in the Sea
6. Public Image Ltd. - First Issue
7. Flipper - Gone Fishin
8. Brainiac - Hissing Prigs in Static Couture
9. Patti Smith Group - Wave
10. MX-80 Sound - Out of the Tunnel

JGuy Grungeman · 01-30-2016, 12:58 PM

I was going down RYM's list of art punk, and it was hard to find recognizable bands on RYM that weren't notable for both. Was I the one who submitted the original post-punk lsit? I don't think so...

But don't think I can't distinguish the two. It's not my fault everyone's voting specific albums to be both post-punk and art punk. The majority of art punk's popularity is from the 70's and early 80's, and although there are a lot of 90's art punk albums, post-punk bands were making more very famous post-punk albums even into the 90's. Siouxsie, The Cure, Nick Cave, and Echo are good examples. Plus, post-punk is much larger than art punk.

The art punk I've heard is less production-based, and is really more like a "stripped-down" version of punk. Post-punk isn't "stripped-down." It's more rule-breaking.

**Frownland** · 01-30-2016, 12:59 PM

Nope, but you made the art punk list.

JGuy Grungeman · 01-30-2016, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland

Nope, but you made the art punk list.

Read the rest. It mentions how art punk is much smaller, and how it's a stripped down version of punk. I'll reiterate: post-punk isn't as much stripped-down as it is rule-breaking/bending. If a song sounds like a stripped down, slighlty experimental version, I'll label it art punk. It still feels like a punk album. Post-punk doesn't "feel" like punk. It feels like an experimental rock album.

**Frownland** · 01-30-2016, 01:07 PM

All I'm saying is that you're going into all of this depth explaining how the two are different and all the while you mistake classic post punk albums as art punk.

JGuy Grungeman · 01-30-2016, 01:11 PM

RYM labeled them as both. So I went with it. An album can have two genres. I'm pretty sure we have albums with two or more genres that would fit into other areas. Boston: AOR, Arena rock, pop rock, hard rock. It would fit in all of those. If you want to replace the art punk albums, do so.

It's good to have a not so heated discussion.

JGuy Grungeman · 01-30-2016, 04:39 PM

Unless this seems more fit for the pop survivor, here's Jangle Pop.

1. R.E.M. - Murmur
2. Smiths - The Queen Is Dead
3. The Go-Betweens - 16 Lovers Lane
4. Teenage Fanclub - Bandwagonesqe
5. The La's - The La's
6. The dB's - Stands for Decibels
7. The Church - Starfish
8. Felt - Forever Breathes the Lonely Word
9. The Soft Boys - Udnerwater Moonlight
10. The Feelies - Only Life

Tristan_Geoff · 01-30-2016, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechnicLePanther

But that pretty much describes any genre. "...characteristics that a lot of them share, but can't describe the whole of [them]."

So, therefore Post-Punk is a genre. Great, we've really gone places here.

Never said it wasn't a genre. It's definitely a genre. Just not a totally well-shaped one. Same with post-hardcore and post-rock to an extent. In it's simplest form, post just denotes the influence of the genre preceding it. NoFX are post-hardcore, meaning hardcore influenced. Of course, this is also incorrect genre speaking, as they don't experimet enough with the hardcore sound to be classified as such. But more timeline speaking, this is true.

01-30-2016, 12:32 PM	#531 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	So because post rock led to the development of other genres, it's a cohesive and singular type of genre. Interesting perspective there, mate. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

01-30-2016, 12:40 PM	#532 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	Well, post-punk does have little distinctions to it. Bat's argument could more easily apply to art punk, since art punk is very experimental. Yet, we can still tell an art punk album from a post-punk album and that from a hardcore album. Most forms of punk are more restircted, but the point of some of them are to experiment. And if one experimental genre is different from the other, than they are separate genres or movements. __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.

01-30-2016, 12:58 PM	#534 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	I was going down RYM's list of art punk, and it was hard to find recognizable bands on RYM that weren't notable for both. Was I the one who submitted the original post-punk lsit? I don't think so... But don't think I can't distinguish the two. It's not my fault everyone's voting specific albums to be both post-punk and art punk. The majority of art punk's popularity is from the 70's and early 80's, and although there are a lot of 90's art punk albums, post-punk bands were making more very famous post-punk albums even into the 90's. Siouxsie, The Cure, Nick Cave, and Echo are good examples. Plus, post-punk is much larger than art punk. The art punk I've heard is less production-based, and is really more like a "stripped-down" version of punk. Post-punk isn't "stripped-down." It's more rule-breaking. __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me. Last edited by JGuy Grungeman; 01-30-2016 at 01:04 PM.

01-30-2016, 12:59 PM	#535 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	Nope, but you made the art punk list. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

01-30-2016, 01:07 PM	#537 (permalink)
Frownland SOPHIE FOREVER Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: East of the Southern North American West Posts: 35,541	All I'm saying is that you're going into all of this depth explaining how the two are different and all the while you mistake classic post punk albums as art punk. __________________ Studies show that when a given norm is changed in the face of the unchanging, the remaining contradictions will parallel the truth. d e a f b o x

01-30-2016, 01:11 PM	#538 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	RYM labeled them as both. So I went with it. An album can have two genres. I'm pretty sure we have albums with two or more genres that would fit into other areas. Boston: AOR, Arena rock, pop rock, hard rock. It would fit in all of those. If you want to replace the art punk albums, do so. It's good to have a not so heated discussion. __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me. Last edited by JGuy Grungeman; 01-30-2016 at 04:02 PM.

01-30-2016, 04:39 PM	#539 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	Unless this seems more fit for the pop survivor, here's Jangle Pop. 1. R.E.M. - Murmur 2. Smiths - The Queen Is Dead 3. The Go-Betweens - 16 Lovers Lane 4. Teenage Fanclub - Bandwagonesqe 5. The La's - The La's 6. The dB's - Stands for Decibels 7. The Church - Starfish 8. Felt - Forever Breathes the Lonely Word 9. The Soft Boys - Udnerwater Moonlight 10. The Feelies - Only Life __________________ I'm a pretty nice troll if you ask me.