Rock Album Survivor

TechnicLePanther · 01-17-2016, 02:13 PM

Jesus christ stop posting so damn quick!!!

Fine, i'll make sure to deal with space magnet.

We're going to start once we figure all this **** out, stop getting overexcited.

The Batlord · 01-17-2016, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechnicLePanther

@Batty

Smashing Pumpkins had a very broad influence, for better or for worse, so they're staying on. Same goes for RHCP. However, because they're associated more with an alternative sound, I'm gonna put Californication on, and also Automatic for the People. As for Violent Femmes and the Stone Roses, we could always make a Folk Punk and Jangle Pop list respectively, as there's definitely enough bands of each to make it work. I'll put them on the To-Do List.

Except that there are better albums to take their place. If you just go by broad popularity then you're giving the shaft to albums that are more deserving.

Trollheart · 01-17-2016, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechnicLePanther

Listen, I'm not going to make a separate concept album section. IMO a concept album is a medium, whereas Rock Opera is the genre that uses that medium. Nevertheless, if you really want me to take two of your favorite albums out of the game (because they're certainly not going anywhere else), I'd be fine to.

Fine. If you're not going to address my concerns, I've certainly got a whole lot more call on my time. But my protest remains. Have fun.

TechnicLePanther · 01-17-2016, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Fine. If you're not going to address my concerns, I've certainly got a whole lot more call on my time. But my protest remains. Have fun.

I didn't say no. I said if you really want me to, I will. But there's just no other place for either 2112 or Genesis.

Also, here's the new Industrial Rock list:

1. Grotus - Slow Motion Apocalypse
2. Nine Inch Nails - The Downward Spiral
3. Skinny Puppy - Too Dark Park
4. Ministry - Land of Rape and Honey
5. Cabaret Voltaire - Red Mecca
6. Chrome - Red Exposure
7. Cop Shoot Cop - Ask Questions Later
8. Einstürzende Neubauten - 1/2 Mensch
9. Foetus - Hole
10. Killing Joke - Pandemonium

Unknown Soldier · 01-17-2016, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

Can someone explain the difference between a concept album and a rock opera? I'm assuming that it's at least like squares and rectangles, where every rock opera is a concept album, but not every concept album is a rock opera. Obviously a concept album that doesn't tell an actual narrative story wouldn't be a rock opera, but what separates those that do but apparently aren't considered rock operas from those that are?

Would Operation: Mindcrime be a rock opera? Or most of Kind Diamond's albums?

Not an easy thing to do really and can easily be left open to interpretation. In general 'rock opera' is an album that feels like a musical and could easily be turned into a stage show, so Tommy would be a perfect example. 'concept album" is an album heavily based around its narrative just think The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway. But then there are loads of albums like Welcome to My Nightmare that could easily qualify as both. Also concept albums are more complex in their formation so are more designed in the studio, whereas rock opera less complex and designed more for the stage.

Now this explanation by me is probably full of holes when you start taking other albums into consideration, but it's something to work on and forms a basis.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

And I see that King Crimson's pick has been changed to Red, but I'd just like to start a discussion as to whether Larks' Tongue in Aspic or In the Court of the Crimson King would be better? I'm fine with any of them, though I would lean toward Red or Larks'. For my money I'd give Larks' the edge, A.) because its quality is as good as Red IMO, B.) because its more experimental nature seems more in the spirit of what prog should stand for, and C.) because its weirdness is just so darn cool.

Red is such a great album but from a prog purist perspective Larks would be a better choice.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

The Lamb can't be seen as a rock opera imo. How do you get that it is?
2112 is only half a concept album and cannot even struggle into being half a rock opera, so again, why?
and
Are you considering doing a concept albums section?

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I have as much right as anyone else to express my difference of opinion over albums I've grown up with.

Yer 2112 is a perfect example of half a concept album.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechnicLePanther

Jesus christ stop posting so damn quick!!!

Fine, i'll make sure to deal with space magnet.

We're going to start once we figure all this **** out, stop getting overexcited.

I bet Technic wishes he'd never started this thread and has probably aged 10 years since doing so.

Trollheart · 01-17-2016, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechnicLePanther

I didn't say no. I said if you really want me to, I will. But there's just no other place for either 2112 or Genesis.

Um, what? You said you wouldn't make a concept albums section, which is where both of these would fit in perfectly. So what are you now saying you will do? Remove the albums? I'm confused as you seem to be contradicting yourself here.

You could also have put them in prog or symphonic prog. It doesn't matter, as for most of this I wouldn't be bothered anyway, but I won't be voting for either of those two albums as rock operas, so will stay away from that section when it comes up. Your dismissal of my points does annoy me though, so I'm inclined really not to even take part. Just not worth the hassle.

Wish you well with it though, probably won't be for me.

JGuy Grungeman · 01-17-2016, 02:50 PM

Dude, chill. This whole rock opera thing is far too stressful for people, and genres have always been subjective. I don't care what happens, but I think we should just leave it as is. I got angry about Meat Loaf since that album's the whole reaosn I got into albums and music, and it taught me some things about myself. Still, I got upset and that wasn't wise. Trollheart, you can just vote those two off the list when the poll comes. That's what I'm doing with some albums I don't think go well on the list. People can think what they want about an album, and this list does try to fit the whole of everyone's opinion into it. You have your Jeff Wayne, I have my Bat Out of Hell.

But I think we should just focus on the to-do list right now. It seems that some of us are stressed right now, so let's just focus on what the series is supposed to be:a fun time.

Tristan_Geoff · 01-17-2016, 03:21 PM

Ska Punk

Choking Victim- No Gods, No Managers
Bomb the Music Industry!- Album Minus Band
Streetlight Manifesto- Everything Goes Numb
Catch 22- Keasby Nights
Less Than Jake- Hello Rockview
The Flatliners- Destroy to Create
Operation Ivy- Energy
Goldfinger- Hang-Ups
Authority Zero- Andiamo
Rancid- Life Won't Wait

I'm working on a folk punk one too.

TechnicLePanther · 01-17-2016, 03:29 PM

I don't see any distinction between a concept album with rock elements and a loose Rock Opera. For now, I want to just put them on one list, as no one seems to really care that much besides yourself. If you can put together both a Rock Opera list and a Concept Album list, or at least come close, then we can do it, but I'm not willing to put in all the effort required to make it work.

EDIT- Thanks, Tristan. Will put both of those up.

The Batlord · 01-17-2016, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

I bet Technic wishes he'd never started this thread and has probably aged 10 years since doing so.

Technically I started the the Rock Album Survivor thread first, then Tech took over when I lost interest in maintaining both survivor threads and started a brand new thread for his version.

Not to toot my own horn, of course.

http://www.musicbanter.com/rock-meta...-survivor.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Um, what? You said you wouldn't make a concept albums section, which is where both of these would fit in perfectly. So what are you now saying you will do? Remove the albums? I'm confused as you seem to be contradicting yourself here.

You could also have put them in prog or symphonic prog. It doesn't matter, as for most of this I wouldn't be bothered anyway, but I won't be voting for either of those two albums as rock operas, so will stay away from that section when it comes up. Your dismissal of my points does annoy me though, so I'm inclined really not to even take part. Just not worth the hassle.

Wish you well with it though, probably won't be for me.

Don't be so sensitive. This is the way these threads work: people disagree, people compromise, no one is satisfied, repeat ad infinitum until a list some people are vaguely happy with is formed and the thread creator just says, "**** it", and refuses to change anything else.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tristan Geoff

Ska Punk

Choking Victim- No Gods, No Managers
Bomb the Music Industry!- Album Minus Band
Streetlight Manifesto- Everything Goes Numb
Catch 22- Keasby Nights
Less Than Jake- Hello Rockview
The Flatliners- Destroy to Create
Operation Ivy- Energy
Goldfinger- Hang-Ups
Authority Zero- Andiamo
Rancid- Life Won't Wait

I'm working on a folk punk one too.

No Specials?

01-17-2016, 02:13 PM	#371 (permalink)
TechnicLePanther and the livin' is easy... Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: New York Posts: 1,997	Jesus christ stop posting so damn quick!!! Fine, i'll make sure to deal with space magnet. We're going to start once we figure all this ** out, stop getting overexcited. __________________ Many have tried to destroy it... but... true evil never dies. It is only... REBORN SUGGEST ME AN ALBUM** - I'm probably not going to listen to it but I will if you bother me enough.

01-17-2016, 03:29 PM	#379 (permalink)
TechnicLePanther and the livin' is easy... Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: New York Posts: 1,997	I don't see any distinction between a concept album with rock elements and a loose Rock Opera. For now, I want to just put them on one list, as no one seems to really care that much besides yourself. If you can put together both a Rock Opera list and a Concept Album list, or at least come close, then we can do it, but I'm not willing to put in all the effort required to make it work. EDIT- Thanks, Tristan. Will put both of those up. __________________ Many have tried to destroy it... but... true evil never dies. It is only... REBORN *SUGGEST ME AN ALBUM* - I'm probably not going to listen to it but I will if you bother me enough.

01-17-2016, 02:50 PM	#377 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	Dude, chill. This whole rock opera thing is far too stressful for people, and genres have always been subjective. I don't care what happens, but I think we should just leave it as is. I got angry about Meat Loaf since that album's the whole reaosn I got into albums and music, and it taught me some things about myself. Still, I got upset and that wasn't wise. Trollheart, you can just vote those two off the list when the poll comes. That's what I'm doing with some albums I don't think go well on the list. People can think what they want about an album, and this list does try to fit the whole of everyone's opinion into it. You have your Jeff Wayne, I have my Bat Out of Hell. But I think we should just focus on the to-do list right now. It seems that some of us are stressed right now, so let's just focus on what the series is supposed to be:a fun time.