The Batlord

It should go without saying that I often lead with vitriol, because that's just my nature, and it can be hard to differentiate my light-hearted trolling from my actual criticisms, but I was being honest and have no hard feelings over our exchange.

I have nothing but contempt for your dismissal of Shout at the Devil however. We will never friends because of it, though your bashing of that Jeff Wayne's Musical Version of The War of the Worlds album goes a small way toward patching our irreconcilable differences. Seriously, I don't care if Phil Lynott is hot ****, because he was terrible on that album.

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JGuy Grungeman

If it makes you feel better, I'll play Shout again after I get through Larks. I've been planning on replaying Shout for a long time, anyway. But hey, Motley Crue is one of my favorite bands. I'll let you know on your wall how I feel about it.

Larks is pretty awesome, btw. And I fully agree it's more representative of progressive music's distinct sense of complexity and experimentation more than Court or Red.

Trollheart

I don't see why, if TLP says he will consider changes, I can't question the categorisation of those two albums. They're neither of them rock operas. I already gave you my criteria, and they don't fulfill them.

Actually, I'll address my question directly to TLP and it is this:

The Lamb can't be seen as a rock opera imo. How do you get that it is?
2112 is only half a concept album and cannot even struggle into being half a rock opera, so again, why?
and
Are you considering doing a concept albums section?

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I have as much right as anyone else to express my difference of opinion over albums I've grown up with.

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Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

The Batlord

Also a few notes on some other battles...

I know Smashing Pumpkins have their fans, but a large portion of music fans consider them to be a cynical attempt to rehash what other bands had already done in a watered-down, boring fashion. I am of the second camp, and really don't think that album deserves to be up there, especially when Jesus and the Mary Chain's Psychocandy is nowhere to be found on this thread.

I'd also chuck Red Hot Chili Peppers for Violent Femme's self-titled or Hallowed Ground. And the Stone Roses self-titled should also be here, or at least in indie rock or something. Oh, and R.E.M.'s album could perhaps be replaced by Automatic for the People.


If we're doing so many lists that separate prog, indie, etc, I think it would make sense to have different lists for hardcore as well, as it's a genre with a wide range of bands. You can't really compare 80s bands to 90s bands, so I think you're doing the genre a disservice by compressing it into just ten albums.

Maybe separating the eighties bands from the later ones might make sense, or making a separate list for scene-specific groups of bands, as New York hardcore evolved very differently than other scenes.

Or separating sub-genres like melodic hardcore, beatdown hardcore, etc. You already have a list for crossover thrash, which is also a sub-genre of hardcore. It would also free up space a couple spots in the punk list, as Bad Religion and the Descendents could be moved to melodic hardcore (and yes, Descendents is spelled incorrectly, with three "e"s and no "a").

Does psychobilly really need its own list? We're already missing regular rockabilly, so I imagine any psychobilly bands of note could just be lumped into that list, as I don't really think most people care enough about either to want two separate lists.

Cop Shoot Cop, Foetus, and Killing Joke are notably absent.


We're also missing ska, for better or worse. I have no desire for Sublime to be on this thread, but Operation Ivy, the Specials, and, like, other bands deserve a chance.


P.S. Monster Magnet's Dopes to Infinity is one both the space rock and stoner rock lists. They're clearly a stoner band first, but I imagine it would be far easier to find a worthy stoner replacement than a space rock one.

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TechnicLePanther

Listen, I'm not going to make a separate concept album section. IMO a concept album is a medium, whereas Rock Opera is the genre that uses that medium. Nevertheless, if you really want me to take two of your favorite albums out of the game (because they're certainly not going anywhere else), I'd be fine to.

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Many have tried to destroy it... but... true evil never dies. It is only... REBORN

SUGGEST ME AN ALBUM - I'm probably not going to listen to it but I will if you bother me enough.

The Batlord

You could always just have the section be "Concept Albums/Rock Operas".

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JGuy Grungeman

All it really boils down to is which album you like more. I'll compare a grunge album to a shoegaze album.

1. Loveless
2. Superfuzz Bigmuff

Both are perfect. Both pretty much define their genre. However, I say Loveless is better because Butcher is a better vocalist than Arm and the album has amazing production.

Now, for my next trick, I shall compare Pyromania to Exodus. Both are albums I rate 97. Exodus has some of the best reggae songs ever, staying true to its style and having great lyrics. However, It's beaten slightly by Pyromania because Pyromania does the same thing with it's hard rock/glam metal style, and even though it may have worse lyrics, Joe Elliot had perfect vocals for the album.

And to be fair, the same could be said for many other bigger genres here, like hard rock and pop rock. Separati ng them into decades just creates more work, and we may even end up doing it with every decade the genres have been in.

Tristan_Geoff

Personally, I never really understood why Melvins keeps getting lunped in with stoner metal. Yeah, they're psychedelic at times, and the certainly are heavy, but they lack the bluesy riff structures and the atmosphere is usually way too dark. Seems like sludge is an obvious descriptor for their sound most of the time though. Except on Senile Animal and Stoner Witch. Those definitely have some stoner qualities.

Anyways I'm rambling. Batty's right, replace Monster Magnet with Akuma no Uta by Boris.

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TechnicLePanther

@Batty

Smashing Pumpkins had a very broad influence, for better or for worse, so they're staying on. Same goes for RHCP. However, because they're associated more with an alternative sound, I'm gonna put Californication on, and also Automatic for the People. As for Violent Femmes and the Stone Roses, we could always make a Folk Punk and Jangle Pop list respectively, as there's definitely enough bands of each to make it work. I'll put them on the To-Do List.

Feel free to mix up the hardcore scene, but as for me, I'm done making lists. If someone feels inspired enough about a genre, they can make one themselves.

Rockabilly is pretty much just rock'n'roll, which we have. And psychobilly is very separate from rockabilly. You can very easily tell one from the other.

I'm going to work on a full reform of Industrial Rock, based mostly on RYM ratings.

Again, if you want Ska and Ska Punk, go right ahead and make them. I may even take a little look at this one. And I'll deal with Dopes to Infinity soon.

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Many have tried to destroy it... but... true evil never dies. It is only... REBORN

SUGGEST ME AN ALBUM - I'm probably not going to listen to it but I will if you bother me enough.

Tristan_Geoff

So when are we planning on giving this a go?

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