Rock Album Survivor

JGuy Grungeman · 01-17-2016, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

Just so you know, do what you want as I say with Bat out of Hell but please stop putting down Wayne. That album celebrated its 30th anniversary in 2008 and went back on tour; the ticket sales were huge. People remembered it from their childhood/growing up. It was so popular that a new version was recorded in 2012 with a younger cast, and prior to that it had been re-released and remixed loads of times. It's a very popular album and very unique. Nobody to my knowledge had before taken a well-known story and made it into a rock opera (unless you count the likes of Jesus Christ Superstar; well let's say a novel) so it was something totally new at the time. The stars that played on it --- Richard Burton, Phil Lynott, David Essex etc --- make it one of the most important albums of its time, and if you had been living/interested in music in 1978 you certainly would have heard about it. It also spawned a top ten hit in the UK and is one of the biggest selling albums of all time in the UK.

It definitely deserves a place. For my money, albums like The Wall, Tommy, should be there. But now that I look at the list, aren't you mixing up rock operas with concept albums? 2112? The Lamb? I know the latter was slated to be made into a movie, but that's not a rock opera either. Concept album does not equal rock opera. Also, Quadrophenia over Tommy? You serious???

But the albums have a story. The story wasn't from the movie, and 2112's title track takes up more than half the album, is split into seven tracks on re-releases, and is a story about a man being discriminated for his love of the guitar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_La...Broadway#Story

That story section isn't taken from the movie. A rock album that tells a story. You're not even bothering to look up if these albums have stories. Plus, I already said that Tommy was taken. Yes, it's true, I like Quadrophenia more. BUt a lot of people do. And like I said, I don't really care about the rest, but the majority of these albums are voted to be rock operas on RYM, and for good reason. I'll give you 2112, though. 2112 isn't voted a rock opera on RYM but there are still plenty of lists out there who consider the album a rock opera, even though the last few tracks of 2112 don't have anything to do with the story.

I don't mean to put down Jeff Wayne, and I was not trying to say Jeff Wayne didn't deserve a shot. but don't call my Bat Out of Hell a travesty. If its that bad, why have you been listening to it for thirty years?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

And when it comes time to vote, people are going to vote for the album they like better, so what's the point of putting up an album they probably won't like as much? Why not just include the album that's gonna stand the better chance of winning in the first place? If other albums before this one have been included because of historical importance then they shouldn't have been.

I could give a **** about you being rude, but as someone who's been running a survivor thread for a year it's annoying to see someone feel entitled in such a childish manner. Over one freakin' album. If I were running this thread I'd have been strongly tempted to have thrown it out just for spite.

And I already said I apologized, so back off.

JGuy Grungeman · 01-17-2016, 08:31 AM

Alright, how about this? Is this more appeasing?
1. Pink Floyd - The Wall
2. Jeff Wayne - Jeff Wayne's Musical Version of The War of the Worlds
3. Bat Out of Hell
4. The Who - Quadrophenia
5. David Bowie - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars
6. Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down Broadway
7. Spock's Beard - Snow
8. Alice Cooper - Welcome to My Nightmare
9. The Pretty Things - S. F. Sorrow
10. Frank Zappa - Joe's Garage

If anyone has a complaint about Welcome to My Nightmare not being a real rock opera, I'll replace it with Last Temptation. And if people want Quadrophenia replaced, I'll let you guys decide on that. I could go either or.

TechnicLePanther · 01-17-2016, 08:35 AM

Jesus ****ing christ.

Um, okay, I'm gonna sort some **** out. For now, all you need to know is that Bat Out of Hell is on the Arena Rock list now. Stop freaking the **** out, guys. Nobody post ****, just wait a bit while I sort everything out.

TechnicLePanther · 01-17-2016, 08:46 AM

Okay,

1. Screamo is up.
2. Cap'n Jazz was swapped out.
3. Stop saying "cats", you're going to make me insane.
4. BOOH can go on Rock Opera, Queen will go on Arena Rock. Be happy.
5. List time! Updating the OP with a "To-Do List". Seems like it will be more organized than scattering everything around here.
6. I put JGuy's Rock Opera up. I'll consider any possible changes, but I really just want to be done with it at this point. The only exception is that Spock's Beard is off and 2112 is on. Don't argue, just ****ing deal with it.

JGuy Grungeman · 01-17-2016, 09:50 AM

I just noticed that Fontanelle is on Grunge and Riot Grrrl. On grunge, let's replace Fontanelle with Above by Mad Season.

Trollheart · 01-17-2016, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

But the albums have a story. The story wasn't from the movie, and 2112's title track takes up more than half the album, is split into seven tracks on re-releases, and is a story about a man being discriminated for his love of the guitar.

That makes it a concept album, but not a rock opera.

Quote:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_La...Broadway#Story

That story section isn't taken from the movie. A rock album that tells a story. You're not even bothering to look up if these albums have stories. Plus, I already said that Tommy was taken. Yes, it's true, I like Quadrophenia more. BUt a lot of people do. And like I said, I don't really care about the rest, but the majority of these albums are voted to be rock operas on RYM, and for good reason. I'll give you 2112, though. 2112 isn't voted a rock opera on RYM but there are still plenty of lists out there who consider the album a rock opera, even though the last few tracks of 2112 don't have anything to do with the story.

Again: The Lamb is a concept album, not a rock opera.

Quote:

I don't mean to put down Jeff Wayne, and I was not trying to say Jeff Wayne didn't deserve a shot. but don't call my Bat Out of Hell a travesty. If its that bad, why have you been listening to it for thirty years?

I didn't call BOOH a travesty. I absolutely love that album. I said (if I said it, I'm not sure but if you say I did then I meant this) that putting it in the Rock Opera section was and is a travesty. I would not vote for it there. I see it's back. Well fine, but I still disagree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TechnicLePanther

Okay,

1. Screamo is up.
2. Cap'n Jazz was swapped out.
3. Stop saying "cats", you're going to make me insane.
4. BOOH can go on Rock Opera, Queen will go on Arena Rock. Be happy.
5. List time! Updating the OP with a "To-Do List". Seems like it will be more organized than scattering everything around here.
6. I put JGuy's Rock Opera up. I'll consider any possible changes, but I really just want to be done with it at this point. The only exception is that Spock's Beard is off and 2112 is on. Don't argue, just ****ing deal with it.

I will argue. 2112 is in no way, shape or form a rock opera. AND that's only half the album. It's not really even a concept album, just half of it, but if you want to do it right I think you'd be better doing a concept albums section. The mixing up of rock opera and concept albums at this stage is just silly.

Also, @ JGuy: I didn't just say on BOOH "it's not a rock opera. It just isn't". I did, but then I qualified that with my criteria of what I believe constitutes a rock opera. So I gave my reasons and did not just say it isn't it isn't IT ISN'T till I was blue in the face, which is kind of what you're implying in that post.

For me, BOOH, 2112, The Lamb are NOT rock operas and never will be. If you're going to call them rock operas then so is Foxtrot, Misplaced Childhood, Desperado, second half of Rising, and so on, and so on....

JGuy Grungeman · 01-17-2016, 11:14 AM

Can we just drop it? I'm not even gonna read that last post. Tech's tired of it, and I am too.

The Batlord · 01-17-2016, 12:35 PM

Can someone explain the difference between a concept album and a rock opera? I'm assuming that it's at least like squares and rectangles, where every rock opera is a concept album, but not every concept album is a rock opera. Obviously a concept album that doesn't tell an actual narrative story wouldn't be a rock opera, but what separates those that do but apparently aren't considered rock operas from those that are?

Would Operation: Mindcrime be a rock opera? Or most of Kind Diamond's albums?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JGuy Grungeman

And I already said I apologized, so back off.

Hey, I respect your passion, as it's how these threads stay alive, and I get that your passion got the best of you, I'm just saying that as great as it is to have heated discussion back and forth to fine tune these lists, it's also frustrating for the person in charge to have five million and one people harshly criticizing your picks, so I'm just standing behind my cohort, Tech. If he's cool then I'm cool.

JGuy Grungeman · 01-17-2016, 12:37 PM

OK, Batlord. Thanks for clarifying (bottom half, I mean).

The Batlord · 01-17-2016, 12:40 PM

And I see that King Crimson's pick has been changed to Red, but I'd just like to start a discussion as to whether Larks' Tongue in Aspic or In the Court of the Crimson King would be better? I'm fine with any of them, though I would lean toward Red or Larks'. For my money I'd give Larks' the edge, A.) because its quality is as good as Red IMO, B.) because its more experimental nature seems more in the spirit of what prog should stand for, and C.) because its weirdness is just so darn cool.

01-17-2016, 08:35 AM	#353 (permalink)
TechnicLePanther and the livin' is easy... Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: New York Posts: 1,997	Jesus **ing christ. Um, okay, I'm gonna sort some out. For now, all you need to know is that Bat Out of Hell is on the Arena Rock list now. Stop freaking the out, guys. Nobody post , just wait a bit while I sort everything out. __________________ Many have tried to destroy it... but... true evil never dies. It is only... REBORN SUGGEST ME AN ALBUM** - I'm probably not going to listen to it but I will if you bother me enough. Last edited by TechnicLePanther; 01-17-2016 at 08:45 AM.

01-17-2016, 08:46 AM	#354 (permalink)
TechnicLePanther and the livin' is easy... Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: New York Posts: 1,997	Okay, 1. Screamo is up. 2. Cap'n Jazz was swapped out. 3. Stop saying "cats", you're going to make me insane. 4. BOOH can go on Rock Opera, Queen will go on Arena Rock. Be happy. 5. List time! Updating the OP with a "To-Do List". Seems like it will be more organized than scattering everything around here. 6. I put JGuy's Rock Opera up. I'll consider any possible changes, but I really just want to be done with it at this point. The only exception is that Spock's Beard is off and 2112 is on. Don't argue, just **ing deal with it. __________________ Many have tried to destroy it... but... true evil never dies. It is only... REBORN SUGGEST ME AN ALBUM** - I'm probably not going to listen to it but I will if you bother me enough.

01-17-2016, 08:31 AM	#352 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	Alright, how about this? Is this more appeasing? 1. Pink Floyd - The Wall 2. Jeff Wayne - Jeff Wayne's Musical Version of The War of the Worlds 3. Bat Out of Hell 4. The Who - Quadrophenia 5. David Bowie - The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust and the Spiders from Mars 6. Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down Broadway 7. Spock's Beard - Snow 8. Alice Cooper - Welcome to My Nightmare 9. The Pretty Things - S. F. Sorrow 10. Frank Zappa - Joe's Garage If anyone has a complaint about Welcome to My Nightmare not being a real rock opera, I'll replace it with Last Temptation. And if people want Quadrophenia replaced, I'll let you guys decide on that. I could go either or.

01-17-2016, 09:50 AM	#355 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	I just noticed that Fontanelle is on Grunge and Riot Grrrl. On grunge, let's replace Fontanelle with Above by Mad Season.

01-17-2016, 11:14 AM	#357 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	Can we just drop it? I'm not even gonna read that last post. Tech's tired of it, and I am too.

01-17-2016, 12:37 PM	#359 (permalink)
JGuy Grungeman Primo Celebate Sexiness Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 2,662	OK, Batlord. Thanks for clarifying (bottom half, I mean).