Music Banter - Metal Album Survivor [1st Wave Black Metal Division]

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Metal Album Survivor [1st Wave Black Metal Division]

Well, William the Bloody seems to have stumbled upon the perfect format to get people into music discussion, so I'm stealing his idea for a metal album thread. Given the sheer number of metal albums out there, I'm gonna have separate battles for each sub-genre, and when all battles are finished, we'll have a "Final", where the winners of each sub-genre battle go head to head, so that we can finally have a definitive answer to what is the best metal album of all time.

Finished Battles:

Traditional Metal
Thrash Metal
Death Metal
Sludge/Stoner Metal
Proto-Metal
Black Metal
Alternative Metal
Doom Metal
Power Metal
Avant-Garde Metal
Grindcore
Glam Metal
Industrial Metal
Progressive Metal
Folk Metal
Drone Metal
Melodic Death Metal

Still to Go:

Groove Metal/Post-Thrash
Post-Metal
Wild Card

Thrash Metal Division Winner: Slayer - Reign In Blood
Trad Metal Division Winner: Iron Maiden - Powerslave
Death Metal Division Winner: Death - Human
Sludge/Stoner Metal Division Winner: Acid Bath - When the Kite String Pops
Proto-Metal Division Winner: Black Sabbath - Paranoid
Black Metal Division Winner: Ulver - Bergtatt: Et eeventyr i 5 capitler
Alternative Metal Division Winner: Rage Against the Machine - Rage Against the Machine
Doom Metal Division Winner: Electric Wizard - Dopethrone
Power Metal Division Winner: Helloween - Keeper of the Seven Keys Part 2
Avant Garde Metal Division Winner: Zu - Carboniferous
Grindcore Division Winner: Pig Destroyer - Prowler in the Yard
Glam Metal Division Winner: Motley Crue - Shout at the Devil
Industrial Metal Division Winner: Killing Joke - Killing Joke (2nd S/T from 2003)
Progressive Metal Division Winner: Mastodon - Blood Mountain
Folk Metal Division Winner: Agalloch - The Mantle
Metalcore Division Winner: Converge - Jane Doe
Drone Metal Division Winner: Sunn O))) - Monoliths & Dimensions
Melodic Death Metal Division Winner: At the Gates - Slaughter of the Soul
Post-Metal Division Winner: Isis - Panopticon
Deathcore Division Winner: The Red Chord - Fused Together in Revolving Doors
Groove/Post-Thrash Division Winner: Gojira - From Mars to Sirius
Symphonic Metal Division Winner: Emperor - Anthems to the Welkin at Dusk
Progressive Thrash Metal Division Winner: Metallica - ...And Justice for All

Now it's time for...

First Wave Black Metal

Bands Voted Off

10. Onslaught - Power from Hell
9. Blasphemy - Fallen Angel of Doom...
8. Bulldozer - The Day of Wrath
7. Mercyful Fate - Melissa

Vote Count

NME - 5
Venom - 4
Poison - 4
Sarcofago - 3
Celtic Frost - 2
Bathory - 0

Still in It to Win It

6. NME - Unholy Death
5. Venom - Black Metal
4. Poison - Into the Abyss...
3. Sarcofago - INRI
2. Celtic Frost - To Mega Therion
1. Bathory - Bathory

Vote 3 off. Vote ends September 15.

Spoiler for Future Battles:

Feck, I've heard less than half of those. Gonna participate when we get to traditional metal, though.

Roots should be the clear winner here, but lets go with what you've got.

Death Angel- The Utra-Violence
Nuclear Assault- Survive
Voivod- Dimension Hatross
Testament- The New Order

Same. Only listened to the first 5 albums. Won't have time to catchup. I'll join in on Trad Metal, as that's the only area I know well enough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustinJJustin (Post 1538733)

Same. Only listened to the first 5 albums. Won't have time to catchup. I'll join in on Trad Metal, as that's the only area I know well enough.

There's going to be a lot of people on here that haven't heard enough for each category, myself included.

But why is Don't Break the Oath on thrash?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Briks (Post 1538730)

Feck, I've heard less than half of those. Gonna participate when we get to traditional metal, though.

Well you can always come in when half the albums have been voted off? Poseur.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1538740)

Well you can always come in when half the albums have been voted off? Poseur.

Careful, or I'll lock you in my cave.

Alright, I've revised the rules.

1. Each list will be limited to ten albums.

2. At this point, you will vote for two bands, and one will be voted off.

Adjust votes accordingly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Briks (Post 1538737)

But why is Don't Break the Oath on thrash?

Too thrash for trad, almost too trad for thrash, so I went with thrash. Still, it's been taken off the list so it's irrelevant at this point.

How do you lock a cave?

Fortunately thrash ruled my life in highschool, unfortunately I'm not a massive fan of any of those albums, but I'm still down for this.
And I'll be voting the same as you for round 1.

Kreator - Pleasure to Kill
Sepultura - Arise

EDIT: Okay actually there are a few there I'm pretty stoked on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pet_Sounds (Post 1538746)

How do you lock a cave?

You report one of my posts and get the mods to do the rest.

Don't.

It's whack that there'll be melodic death metal but not death metal. I'm gonna write Immolation a letter.

Testament- The New Order
Dark Angel- Time Does Not Heal

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mondo Bungle (Post 1538754)

It's whack that there'll be melodic death metal but not death metal. I'm gonna write Immolation a letter.

Oops! My badskies. Just updated the OP. Of course death metal will be on here.

The New Order
Time Does Not Heal

I think I'll also keep a list of the other sub-genre battles I'm coming up with, just so everyone can comment and help me revise them before they get officially posted. They'll be in a spoiler in the OP. And no, they won't be open to be officially voted on, just the current battle.

Pleasure to Kill
Bonded By Blood

And the first tentative lists for future battles are up in the OP, so feel free to check and comment. They are very open to change and all sub-genres haven't yet been included. I'll keep updates to it when I declare winners, so stay tuned.

Well now I'm really gonna write Immolation a letter.

I don't understand, Darkness Descends has more than double the listeners than Time Does Not Heal on Last FM. How is the latter their "best?"

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1538725)

Well, William the Bloody seems to have stumbled upon the perfect format to get people into music discussion, so I'm stealing his idea for a metal album thread. Given the sheer number of metal albums out there, I'm gonna have separate battles for each sub-genre, and when all battles are finished, we'll have a "Final", where the winners of each sub-genre battle go head to head, so that we can finally have a definitive answer to what is the best metal album of all time. I'll make sure to go with what are generally accepted as each band's best album (each band will only get one nomination per category, though I might allow a band to have another album in a separate sub-genre battle depending on a case-by-case basis). If I've left anything obvious out (if it's an obscure band they'll have to have one hell of an album for me to add it, since I don't want to get bogged down by having people having to listen albums they've never heard of before), and if any sub-genres aren't being represented then, likewise, let me know.

And just FYI, some genres may have less entries than others. I'll ask for recs for some of these if I'm just not familiar enough with them to give a representative list, but again, if it's a genre whose luminaries are just obscure, then they may just have to live with less albums. I know a lot of people on here aren't very fond of metalcore and groove metal, so if popular opinion just isn't very interested in them, I might just combine them into something like "modern metal".

The sub-genres will be:

Traditional metal (Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, etc)
Proto-metal (Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, etc)
Power metal
Thrash metal
Death Metal
Black metal
Doom metal
Stoner/sludge metal
Glam metal (suck it)
Grindcore
Industrial metal
Metalcore
Groove metal
Progressive metal (I'm def gonna need recs for this)
Alternative metal (any nu metal albums will be listed under here, since there just won't be enough for people to care)
Avant-garde metal
Melodic death metal

That's a lot of ****ing genres, so if anyone has ideas about combining genres to save time, then feel free.

We'll start off with thrash...

1. Metallica - Master of Puppets
2. Megadeth - Rust In Peace
3. Anthrax - Among the Living
4. Slayer - Reign In Blood
5. Exodus - Bonded By Blood
6. Kreator - Pleasure to Kill
7. Testament - The New Order
8. SOD - Speak English or Die
9. Dark Angel -Time Does Not Heal
10. Sepultura- Arise

Vote 2 albums, and the bottom 1 will be out.

I believe William had a two day voting limit, so we'll go with that. So, voting ends on January 17. Also, will keep each list to a maximum of ten albums.

My votes:

Sepultura - Arise
Kreator - Pleasure to Kill

Spoiler for Future Battles:

On DOOM: when did EW release an album called Dopesmoker? And I think that Master of Reality would be a better pick for the genre than Paranoid.

Some recommendations for the Sludge / Stoner Metal top 10 while we're ahead of the game:

Spoiler for Stoner / Sludge Metal Albums:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1538782)

On DOOM: when did EW release an album called Dopesmoker?

lol I just noticed that too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wpnfire (Post 1538781)

I don't understand, Darkness Descends has more than double the listeners than Time Does Not Heal on Last FM. How is the latter their "best?"

Cause it is. Suck it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frownland (Post 1538782)

On DOOM: when did EW release an album called Dopesmoker? And I think that Master of Reality would be a better pick for the genre than Paranoid.

Fixed. And Paranoid is generally considered their best (for some strange reason), so that's why I put it up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPOCH6 (Post 1538783)

Some recommendations for the Sludge / Stoner Metal top 10 while we're ahead of the game:

Spoiler for Stoner / Sludge Metal Albums:

I hate to be a genre purist, but is Kyuss considered a metal band or just stoner rock? I'll bow to popular consensus though. I'll need to do some looking into Unida and Acid King though, as I'm not that up on stoner, but remember that nominations are more about popular opinion than personal preference, so if they're not on any top lists I can find, then they're out. Otherwise, those are definitely what I'd have gone with. I'd also add...

High on Fire - Death Is this Communion (if they can be said to be anything, then they're stoner)
Down - NOLA
Goatsnake - Flower of Disease
Corrosion of Conformity - Deliverance

Also gonna need some opinions on Clutch and Orange Goblin, which I dig, but don't know much about, and am not even sure if they're considered stoner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1538786)

Cause it is. Suck it.

But it isn't. DD has a higher rating on RYM (3.89 compared to 3.61 for Time) and it has more listeners on Last FM (23,705 compared to 9,644).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wpnfire (Post 1538789)

But it isn't. DD has a higher rating on RYM (3.89 compared to 3.61 for Time) and it has more listeners on Last FM (23,705 compared to 9,644).

And in my experience TDNH is generally considered to be a superior album. Use your RYM and you Last.fm all you want, but the die is cast and you lose.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1538786)

I hate to be a genre purist, but is Kyuss considered a metal band or just stoner rock? I'll bow to popular consensus though. I'll need to do some looking into Unida and Acid King though, as I'm not that up on stoner, but remember that nominations are more about popular opinion than personal preference, so if they're not on any top lists I can find, then they're out. Otherwise, those are definitely what I'd have gone with. I'd also add...

Also gonna need some opinions on Clutch and Orange Goblin, which I dig, but don't know much about, and am not even sure if they're considered stoner.

If Clutch is going to make the list Kyuss will have to make the list too. This category is going to be difficult because generally rock and roll influence is a lot more acceptable in stoner metal than in sludge metal, where punk influence is more typical. The two genres don't feel different enough for their own separate survivor series but the two genres are different enough that the range from heaviest sludge band to least heavy stoner band is pretty massive. I think Kyuss tracks like Green Machine or Conan Troutman and Clutch tracks like High Caliber Consecrator and Impetus have been enough to gain identity in the metal scene, but of course most of their material does lean more toward rock and roll. If you Google "stoner metal albums" you're going to see Kyuss and Clutch, but if you Google "sludge metal albums" they won't be anywhere in sight.

EDIT: Also, I agree that TDNH is musically superior to DD and belongs on the list, but it is true that DD has more street cred as a classic for whatever reason.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1538786)

Fixed. And Paranoid is generally considered their best (for some strange reason), so that's why I put it up.

Paranoid is their best, but if you're going to put up a Sabbath album for doom then Master of reality is better, Paranoid should go in trad metal.

Among the Living
Bonded by Blood

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier (Post 1538794)

Paranoid is their best, but if you're going to put up a Sabbath album for doom then Master of reality is better, Paranoid should go in trad metal.

Except that it's not really a trad metal album in any sense of the vague genre boundaries of trad metal. I actually thought about putting them in proto-metal, and might still do that. Besides, we're ultimately looking for the best metal album of all time, so just because an album is more appropriate for whatever genre battle it starts in, so long is it's still appropriate, it makes sense to go with the more acclaimed one.

I'm for putting Black Sabbath albums in proto-metal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1538798)

Ok, it might be an idea then to put all 70s albums apart from other trad metal from the 80s onwards.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier (Post 1538806)

Ok, it might be an idea then to put all 70s albums apart from other trad metal from the 80s onwards.

I was certainly thinking of it. Early Priest would actually qualify IMO. Sin after Sin is certainly proto-metal, and I'd say Sad Wings too. Not sure about Stained Class, but I'll just use the 80s as an easy cut off for them. So, Sad Wings, Machine Head, Led Zep 4, Paranoid, In for the Kill (Budgie), Back In Black, and Secret Treaties (Blue Oyster Cult) all seem pretty obvious. US probably should have ultimate say though.

Never really got into Thrash, will join in for most of the other styles though.

^^^

Since a lot of people aren't gonna be down for this sub-genre or other, could a mod change the title of the thread to include at the end "[Thrash Metal Division]"? And after that we could change the title again to reflect whichever genre we're doing? Hopefully that'll keep the non-interesteds interested.

All I gotta say is that you ****ers better be down when it's time for the metalcore battle, cause I busted my ass just coming up with ten albums (list now posted in the OP). And no it wasn't torture, I'm just too uninformed on the genre to have come up with the list without a bunch of research. Protest the Hero kind of rules BTW.

Uh oh looks like I started a trend. I have another idea for a survivor thread but I'm going to wait a few months, too much & the novelty wears off.
That and I'm sure the mods don't want the forum flooded with survivor threads.

Bye the way you put up the wrong Megadeth album, it should be Peace Sells. Now your going to make me vote Slayer over Megadeth, tis booty. Anyways....

My votes

Dark Angel -Time Does Not Heal
Sepultura- Arise

Quote:

Originally Posted by William_the_Bloody (Post 1538861)

You seem to have spelled "Rust In Peace" as "Peace Sells". Easy mistake to make.

I'm also taking William's advice and changing the voting back to voting for four albums this time around. Sorry for the confusion, but if you've already voted for two albums, then just add two more.

Testament - New Order
Dark Angel -Time Does Not Heal