Is extreme metal boring now?

Dylstew · 05-10-2014, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carpe Mortem

I think the true definition of 'extreme metal' is difficult for me to pinpoint or make judgement upon, because for a long time I thought it just meant experimental. What defines extreme? Ideology, unusual instrumental stylings, anticonformism in general?

Extreme metal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
''Extreme metal is a loosely defined umbrella term for a number of related heavy metal music subgenres that have developed since the early 1980s. The term usually refers to a more abrasive, harsher, underground, non-commercialized style or sound nearly always associated with genres like thrash metal, black metal, death metal, and doom metal.''-Wikipedia

It's pretty much all of the more heavy/agresive, more ''extreme'' metal sub genres.

Carpe Mortem · 05-10-2014, 11:38 AM

Thanks dude, except I would never refer to any doom, or a good number of black metal or thrash bands, as extreme metal. To expand on the point I was trying to make then forgot about... the word extreme, to me, means overbearingly intense **** thats fast and obnoxious s ****. That's why I don't fully understand the definition, like who the hell ever has referred to My Dying Bride as extreme metal? Or Judas Priest? I mean these are bands you could chill around at home listening to.

So extreme metal is fast, pounding, loud and in your face music IMO. It seems to me the actual definition is in reference to a non-mainstream production value, considering the chill and bearable subgenres it associated with, and I disagree with that definition. Production cannot be referred to as extreme or not extreme, I just personally think that's really lame.

**Janszoon** · 05-10-2014, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carpe Mortem

Thanks dude, except I would never refer to any doom, or a good number of black metal or thrash bands, as extreme metal. To expand on the point I was trying to make then forgot about... the word extreme, to me, means overbearingly intense **** thats fast and obnoxious s ****. That's why I don't fully understand the definition, like who the hell ever has referred to My Dying Bride as extreme metal? Or Judas Priest? I mean these are bands you could chill around at home listening to.

So extreme metal is fast, pounding, loud and in your face music IMO. It seems to me the actual definition is in reference to a non-mainstream production value, considering the chill and bearable subgenres it associated with, and I disagree with that definition. Production cannot be referred to as extreme or not extreme, I just personally think that's really lame.

I think the best way to look at extreme metal as a category is as an umbrella term for the styles of metal, beginning in the 80s, where metal ceased being a subgenre if rock and started to be its own entity, things like death metal, black metal, grindcore. It's the branch of the metal family tree that doesn't contain things like traditional metal, NWOBHM, glam, power metal, etc. Traditional doom isn't extreme metal but later types of doom are, like drone doom.

Carpe Mortem · 05-10-2014, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

I think the best way to look at extreme metal as a category is as an umbrella term for the styles of metal, beginning in the 80s, where metal ceased being a subgenre if rock and started to be its own entity, things like death metal, black metal, grindcore. It's the branch of the metal family tree that doesn't contain things like traditional metal, NWOBHM, glam, power metal, etc. Traditional doom isn't extreme metal but later types of doom are, like drone doom.

I guess I just generally associate the word 'extreme metal' with ****ty music praised by teenagers, heavy on the 'core'. And if I like it, I don't call it extreme, I call it by a more definitive name. No offense meant to core fans.

For instance a lot of the bands Ninetales brought up I never thought of as extreme because their songs have melody, thus placing them, in my eyes, within a more proper genre.

**Janszoon** · 05-10-2014, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carpe Mortem

I guess I just generally associate the word 'extreme metal' with ****ty music praised by teenagers, heavy on the 'core'. And if I like it, I don't call it extreme, I call it by a more definitive name. No offense meant to core fans.

For instance a lot of the bands Ninetales brought up I never thought of as extreme because their songs have melody, thus placing them, in my eyes, within a more proper genre.

To me it's just a label that makes it easier to discuss a chunk of metal. Like any genre-related terminology it's not a judgement of quality, just a shorthand way of describing a group of related things.

mythsofmetal · 05-10-2014, 03:48 PM

I have to agree with what some people have already said in that extreme Metal has always had its share of boring releases, but has also had its gems for each year as well. I also have to say I think extreme Metal over the past few years has been just fine, if not as good as it's ever been. Here's a list of some extreme Metal releases from over the past 5 or so years, which I think all have proven the genre's not in a decline.

Sigh - Scenes From Hell (2010)
Hail Spirit Noir - Pneuma (2012)
Wintersun - Time I (2012)
Absu - Absu (2009)
Mondstille - Seelenwund (2012)
Gallowbraid - Ashen Eidolon (2010)
Catuvolcus - Gergovia (2012)
Klabautamann - Merkur (2009)
Watain - Lawless Darkness (2010)
Kalmah - Seventh Swamphony (2013)
Behemoth - The Satanist (2014)
Bran Barr - Sidh (2010)
Bornholm - March For Glory and Revenge (2009)

All of these albums prove to me extreme Metal has been doing just fine, and there's many more released in the last five years that cement my opinion even further.

I believe the reason people say it's boring now but wasn't in the past isn't anything out of the ordinary. There's always someone who will say anything isn't as good as it used to be for whatever reason. I just usually either ignore it, or explain how I feel, and give them a counter argument. I don't think anyone who likes extreme Metal now should be worried by the naysayers, I know I'm not.

As for people who've never liked extreme Metal. That's fine, but please don't give a reason that "it has no melody" because virtually all of the extreme Metal I've heard has had melody. It just may not have a common sort of melody, in a way that it may be more dissonant or less clear. If you give it some time those extreme Metal sounds could really grow on you, though you shouldn't force yourself either. But there's even a lot of extreme Metal out there with easy and catchy melodies. So don't make up stuff about a genre you may not have looked into much.

Dylstew · 05-10-2014, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Carpe Mortem

I guess I just generally associate the word 'extreme metal' with ****ty music praised by teenagers, heavy on the 'core'. And if I like it, I don't call it extreme, I call it by a more definitive name. No offense meant to core fans.

For instance a lot of the bands Ninetales brought up I never thought of as extreme because their songs have melody, thus placing them, in my eyes, within a more proper genre.

Are you implying genres with the word core in it suck?
Because I'd consider Hardcore Punk a very important punk rock genre. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmgWNTsrr68.
And just because a genre is heavier, doesn't mean it's ****ty music praised by teenagers. It's just an umbrella term man, to make it easy when talking about this type of metal instead of the more traditional type. You don't have to take it seriously, it's not an actual genre name.

Trollheart · 05-11-2014, 06:22 AM

@ Mythosofmetal: perhaps I should rephrase: I don't hear any melody in it. It's true some people may hear melody in birdsong, wind, a car engine or anything else, but that doesn't mean I do. You're right in that I have looked very little into this subgenre, but again check my journal for Metal Month (October 2013) and you'll see I gave it a good shot, and did not just put down every band. I tried but little of it appealed to me, though the odd one did.

I find it hard to find any melody in music that is played way way too fast to follow (for me) or gutteral or screamed vocals that seem to be just ranting a lot of the time (Morbid Angel/Slipknot/Possessed etc). Also I've had people far more into this music than I would ever be tell me "there doesn't always have to be melody", which presupposes they don't necessarily hear any in the music of some of the bands in this subgenre either...

Dylstew · 05-12-2014, 04:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

@ Mythosofmetal: perhaps I should rephrase: I don't hear any melody in it. It's true some people may hear melody in birdsong, wind, a car engine or anything else, but that doesn't mean I do. You're right in that I have looked very little into this subgenre, but again check my journal for Metal Month (October 2013) and you'll see I gave it a good shot, and did not just put down every band. I tried but little of it appealed to me, though the odd one did.

I find it hard to find any melody in music that is played way way too fast to follow (for me) or gutteral or screamed vocals that seem to be just ranting a lot of the time (Morbid Angel/Slipknot/Possessed etc). Also I've had people far more into this music than I would ever be tell me "there doesn't always have to be melody", which presupposes they don't necessarily hear any in the music of some of the bands in this subgenre either...

The more melodic you make it, the less it sounds like the genre :P. Sure, there's melody in there, but like you said: Not a lot.

**Janszoon** · 05-12-2014, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trollheart

@ Mythosofmetal: perhaps I should rephrase: I don't hear any melody in it. It's true some people may hear melody in birdsong, wind, a car engine or anything else, but that doesn't mean I do. You're right in that I have looked very little into this subgenre, but again check my journal for Metal Month (October 2013) and you'll see I gave it a good shot, and did not just put down every band. I tried but little of it appealed to me, though the odd one did.

I find it hard to find any melody in music that is played way way too fast to follow (for me) or gutteral or screamed vocals that seem to be just ranting a lot of the time (Morbid Angel/Slipknot/Possessed etc). Also I've had people far more into this music than I would ever be tell me "there doesn't always have to be melody", which presupposes they don't necessarily hear any in the music of some of the bands in this subgenre either...

Melody is a series of notes played in a pattern, so it definitely has melody. It's just not a melody that you enjoy.

05-10-2014, 11:38 AM	#12 (permalink)
Carpe Mortem Crusher of tiny Nords Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Ugly Bag of Mostly Water Posts: 1,363	Thanks dude, except I would never refer to any doom, or a good number of black metal or thrash bands, as extreme metal. To expand on the point I was trying to make then forgot about... the word extreme, to me, means overbearingly intense ** thats fast and obnoxious s . That's why I don't fully understand the definition, like who the hell ever has referred to My Dying Bride as extreme metal? Or Judas Priest? I mean these are bands you could chill around at home listening to. So extreme metal is fast, pounding, loud and in your face music IMO. It seems to me the actual definition is in reference to a non-mainstream production value, considering the chill and bearable subgenres it associated with, and I disagree with that definition. Production cannot be referred to as extreme or not extreme, I just personally think that's really lame. __________________ [SIG][/SIG] Mirth is King** Be Loving & Open With My Emotions

05-11-2014, 06:22 AM	#18 (permalink)
Trollheart Born to be mild Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: 404 Not Found Posts: 26,992	@ Mythosofmetal: perhaps I should rephrase: I don't hear any melody in it. It's true some people may hear melody in birdsong, wind, a car engine or anything else, but that doesn't mean I do. You're right in that I have looked very little into this subgenre, but again check my journal for Metal Month (October 2013) and you'll see I gave it a good shot, and did not just put down every band. I tried but little of it appealed to me, though the odd one did. I find it hard to find any melody in music that is played way way too fast to follow (for me) or gutteral or screamed vocals that seem to be just ranting a lot of the time (Morbid Angel/Slipknot/Possessed etc). Also I've had people far more into this music than I would ever be tell me "there doesn't always have to be melody", which presupposes they don't necessarily hear any in the music of some of the bands in this subgenre either... __________________ Trollheart: Signature-free since April 2018

05-10-2014, 03:48 PM	#16 (permalink)
mythsofmetal Music Addict Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 207	I have to agree with what some people have already said in that extreme Metal has always had its share of boring releases, but has also had its gems for each year as well. I also have to say I think extreme Metal over the past few years has been just fine, if not as good as it's ever been. Here's a list of some extreme Metal releases from over the past 5 or so years, which I think all have proven the genre's not in a decline. Sigh - Scenes From Hell (2010) Hail Spirit Noir - Pneuma (2012) Wintersun - Time I (2012) Absu - Absu (2009) Mondstille - Seelenwund (2012) Gallowbraid - Ashen Eidolon (2010) Catuvolcus - Gergovia (2012) Klabautamann - Merkur (2009) Watain - Lawless Darkness (2010) Kalmah - Seventh Swamphony (2013) Behemoth - The Satanist (2014) Bran Barr - Sidh (2010) Bornholm - March For Glory and Revenge (2009) All of these albums prove to me extreme Metal has been doing just fine, and there's many more released in the last five years that cement my opinion even further. I believe the reason people say it's boring now but wasn't in the past isn't anything out of the ordinary. There's always someone who will say anything isn't as good as it used to be for whatever reason. I just usually either ignore it, or explain how I feel, and give them a counter argument. I don't think anyone who likes extreme Metal now should be worried by the naysayers, I know I'm not. As for people who've never liked extreme Metal. That's fine, but please don't give a reason that "it has no melody" because virtually all of the extreme Metal I've heard has had melody. It just may not have a common sort of melody, in a way that it may be more dissonant or less clear. If you give it some time those extreme Metal sounds could really grow on you, though you shouldn't force yourself either. But there's even a lot of extreme Metal out there with easy and catchy melodies. So don't make up stuff about a genre you may not have looked into much.