Wpnfire

If you don't call Black Sabbath the first heavy metal band, who do you call the first heavy metal band?


I believe I said it earlier, the solo is what makes it heavy for me. I see what you are getting at here, and it reminds me of "Killer of Giants" by Ozzy Osbourne, which of course, everyone agrees is heavy metal. That's what I use to base that.


Again, it boggles my mind what people see in Ride The Lightning, and why any sane person would pick it over Kill Em All or Master of Puppets. Every song on RTL sounds the same to me other than "Call of Ktulu," "Fade To Black," and "Fight Fire With Fire."
While I think all of Metallica's albums are considerably more varied than a ton of other bands, I consider Master to be their most varied, and RTL the second least of their first four albums with And Justice being the least varied.

I can't fathom why you would think that when Master has "Master of Puppets," AND "The Thing That Should Not Be." I guess it's slower, but I don't see the difference in heavy.




That's just wrong. Look me saying that the black album is 'barely a heavy metal album' is way way different than you saying that '..And Justice is not a true thrash metal album.' ..And Justice is objectively a thrash metal album. I was reading a review for it a few weeks ago that called it or something like that. I don't agree with that sentence at ALL. That's not stating an opinion, that's just wrong.
You can speculate that maybe Pluto is a planet, but you can NOT say that maybe Saturn is a planet. The black album is maybe a heavy metal album, but ..And Justice is 100% a thrash metal album.

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Now, I may have said that there's no fastness to the songs, which is what some consider heavy metal. I was just putting out a point. I do, indeed, feel that they are the first metal band. But they are also a classic rock band more so to me...


This is one of the points I was trying to make; just because you cannot hear the metal in the song, which every song, except Nothing Else Matters, is as strongly metal than anything in the Unforgiven.




Everything boggles someone's mind. Yours moreso than most


Did you stop thinking and just listen to the albums, or think about their structures and their differences? Taking any song from Kill 'Em All and compare them to the rest, there is just something rawer and a lot edgier, plus a lot faster in feel than the rest. No, not by miles and miles, but by feet or yards, meters, too, if you like.


So says the person whom didn't like the Black Album. Hey, it's a double edged sword here, a double edged demon sword.


Like I've said, and you've said about other albums past that one. The Black Album was metal. Even if you don't see it, it is. So was Black Sabbath. Not that you don't see that. But ...And Justice just doesn't have the fast pace that thrash contains. Listening to the first three and compare them to ...And Justice, it's night and day, really. Sure, there's still metal in there, everywhere, but the elements of thrash were waning. Not to say that it isn't thrash. I just kind of look at it as a less thrashy album. Heck, didn't I say I liked it over "Master" did I? But I consider Master as thrash, and that is because it is speedier. With every album they slowed down just a bit. To me, that is. I think it's thrash, but not true to the earlier ones.


Oh really? They said 'something like that' eh? Look, that's the same as saying that I read a review the other week where someone called the Black Album an awesome heavy metal album that will go down in history as the very best. It's all subjective. One second you could be thinking 'Gee, that's heavy metal' and it was a Kiss song, which I don't recall being heavy metal. Or saying, 'This is the heaviest band ever!' and it being Slipknot. Or thinking that Godzilla 2014 wasn't a real Godzilla movie, nor was '98. But some people don't agree.


You know what? You don't have to; we don't live under a dictatorship, so go on and not agree. It won't put me in a coma, or anything.

And that's what? Just your opinion, man.

Have you ever just wanted to tell someone to shut up? Well, have you? Then just be real and tell me to... I just did to you with this whole post.

Or something like that...

Wpnfire

Who are you????????????? Seriously, it is like you are my doppelgänger or something.

Let's just look at everything you and I have said lol. It's quite interesting.

The black album as a heavy metal album: You think it is heavy metal, I think it is not.
While we clearly have dissenting opinons on this, we BOTH agree Enter Sandman is a really really really overplaid song.
Also, we seem to be in (slight) agreement that there are better applications of the word heavy than using it to describe the black album for the most part.
Also also, we (somehow) agree Sad But True is the heaviest song from that album, though we, bizarrely, have differing definitions and therefore applications of the word heavy.

Favorite Metallica albums: We both agree Kill Em All is the best, but really deviate after that.
I think Master is the 2nd best (possibly I think it is tied for the best with Kill Em All), you think Ride the Lightning is the 2nd best, and then even place And Justice above MoP...................you ****er. lol
On the subject of kill Em All, we agree it is their edgiest material as well.

And Justice being a thrash metal album: We have differing views about this..............I still refuse to yield that And Justice is in fact a thrash metal album, so I guess I will admit that the black album is 'mainstream heavy metal.'

Load: I think this album is a POS, you think it is one of your favorite metallica albums.
That being said, I love love love leove lvoelvo vleov lovoelve...."Ain't My Bitch"

We both seem to like Megadeth as well.

Black Sabbath is unquestionably a heavy metal band. I saw someone on another site refer to Black Sabbath as "death metal." I don't agree with calling Black Sabbath anything other than heavy metal, or first wave-*insert heavy metal genre here*.

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Isbjørn

Referring to this.

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A doppelganger to whom? Myself?


I have argued to the contrary about this often times. But I think it is heavy enough to be considered as such. If Sabbath can be placed in the genre, I don't see why this album cannot.

As can be said about other metal bands, too, don't you agree?


You try playing every song on that album, neglecting Nothing Else Matters, Unforgiven and Enter Sandman, and I think you'll find some very good songs that have that exact element of heavy as Sad But True. I don't believe that you are even sitting down to actually listen to them as I have been ever since this whole debate began. Listen to the album, skipping the obvious choices, and I think you might come away with a few more heavy sounding songs.

You shoulda said, "You motherbleeper, you." I think that would have been much funnier. I think Joe Pesei said that in Goodfellas, or something.

I don't know. Maybe I am wrong. I think I just like ...And Justice a bit better because there are so many songs on there, like the Black Album, but unlike Master of Puppets... I love every song on their first five albums. I still love Enter Sandman, but I don't listen to that one as much anymore. Doesn't mean I hate it.



Well, der.

Maybe I was a little off about this one. But if you listen to each album, they get less thrashy than the last, and thus I think that you can see where the Black Album was going to lead to. ...And Justice is far heavier than the Black Album. I think we can both agree on that.

What about Slayer being thrash? I used to think that that was death metal before I heard what death really sounded like. But I don't think that Slayer is really thrash; it's closer to black metal...



Exactly. Just because it is mainstream, that doesn't mean it ain't metal.

Oh, by the way, I just gave you the clap!


Did I say that? If I did, scratch that. It's not one of my favorites. You know what my favorite are. It's just a really good hard rock album. Hard Rock, you know?


Yes, I think I recall.



I do have a few of their albums, but never really got into them as much as Metallica. I want to give them more listens, though.

Then so is the Black Album, for reasons I've gone over.

Uhem, what?



It's like viewing Deep Purple and Blue Oyster Cult as metal. I enjoy them a whole heck of a lot. But I've never considered them as metal. I see them as a progression to the genre, but they are just classic rock to me. Heck, those songs in the 50s I consider as pathing stones to metal.