That may be the best solo on the entire album also. And St Anger was awful.

Much like The Batlord I also like St.Anger and it is a kind of progressive alt.metal, a much maligned album that doesn't deserve the stick it gets.

It certainly deserves some stick, just not a waterfall of logs.

I like all Metallica albums but my two favorites are Ride the Lightning and Black album.

I went with Black album just cause I literally wore that record out.

Master of Puppets with Justice being a very close second!

Alright, so my current ranking goes like this

1. Master of Puppets
2. ...And Justice For All
3. Ride the Lightning
4. Kill Em' All
5. The Black Album

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Every other album.




With Kill Em' All I can't find a song other than "Hit the Lights," "The Four Horsemen," and "Seek & Destroy" that I can really get into, though "Hit the Lights" kicks major ****ing ass and at this moment is possible tied with "Sad But True" for my favorite Metallica song.

Ride the Lightning just seems...unfocused to me. I really like the "clean" aspects of some of the songs like the first track and especially "Fade To Black," but overall those aspects were considerably refined in Master of Puppets with "Battery" and the mellow intro of "Damage, Inc." Even the instrumental "Orion" flows better than "Call of Ktulu." RTL also seems to be the least varied I dare say of Metallica's first five albums?

...And Justice for All basically takes my favorite elements from "Master of Puppets" (the song) and makes that into an album. "...And Justice For All" even sounds very similar to "MoP." I've noticed that this album doesn't sound as aggressive as their earlier work? Like it was filtered/mixed too much/too well perhaps? When I listen to "...And Justice For All" then listen to "S&D" the difference is startling. Anybody else notice that?

Anyway, those are my thoughts.

Also, ignore what I said about St. Anger. The vocals just kill that album.

I guess you're referring to the lack of bass on the album.

Is that what it is?? The album sounds so hollow.

I'm surprised you never knew or read that somewhere already, as that is what the album is most famous for lacking and is usually mentioned in every review or article about the album.

Yeah they screwed with Jason's bass as sort of a "**** you!" what with the whole Cliff thing. But why they would think it was a good idea to **** all over your new band member's parts on an album I have no idea.

Black (don't hurt me!)

My favorite song is probably Fade to Black, but Black has more good songs in general than their other albums.

I just listened to and justice two days ago completely spontaneously. I know nothing about it.

If you're calling black the most varied album I think you're half right half wrong. Their first five albums are equally creative. From instrumentals in RTL and MOP to bass guitar solos in KEA (Pulling Teeth), its's pretty unreal the stuff Metallica puts into their albums.

I personally find the Nothing Else Matters to be crap but sad but true and the unforgiven are some high quality awesome.

I listened to some of those added bass tracks from ...And Justice. I don't know if they did them wrong, but they sounded awful to me...

Kill em' All is my favorite Metallica album.

Although Ride the Lightning is also a good album.

I don't find it particularly varied, it's actually very tight in terms of feel and attitude. It was my introduction to Metallica, it was also (I believe) following Hetfield's first classical training as a singer.

I don't find NEM to be crap, but it's mediocre and overplayed which doesn't help it's case. Of Wolf and Man is probably my favorite song from that album.

The black album was the album that propelled them into the mainstream and is one of the best selling albums of all time, so for many people, it was their introduction. This is also the reason for why most rock stations seem to play songs from this release the most.

I agree 100% with this. The lack of bass on some songs is okay like "...And Justice for All," and "One," but my God I barely notice when I'm listening to songs on AJA because of the lack of bass. "...And Justice for All" kicks some serious ass with the riffs though.

I don't understand, what are you talking about?

At least you didn't say Enter Sandman is your favorite song from Black.

The biggest problem I have with the Black album is that it's like progressive metal with songs like NEM, and I don't like that at all. Of course, Sad But True is still my favorite Metallica song and the Unforgiven has my favorite guitar solo among all of Metallica's songs that I've heard and possibly my favorite guitar solo of all time.
That being said, I find the rest of the album pretty much entirely awful.


Most of the clean and/or progressive Metallica songs I tend to dislike such as Fade To Black.
All of my favorite Metallica songs are the non-progressive songs like–

You know what, this is actually a great time for me to rank some of my favorite Metallica songs:

1. Sad But True
2. Ain't My Bitch
3. Master of Puppets
4. The Thing That Should Not Be
5. Orion
6. And Justice For All
7. Hit The Lights
8. The Four Horsemen
9. Seek And Destroy
10. Motorbreath
11. Jump In The Fire
12. Pulling Teeth
13. The Call of Ktulu
14. Battery
15. The Unforgiven

If The Unforgiven didn't have that awesome solo, I would probably dislike it too.



^ This is inaccurate for me now. It's probably this now:

1.Master
2.Kill Em All
3. And Justice
4. Ride the Lightning
5. Black album

Apparently, I had it backwards. He went and got vocal lessons AFTER the black album (according to the internet, anyway).

I like the progressive stuff, myself. At the opposite end of the melodic spectrum, I don't like thrash metal.

Uh, serious question here, why did you listen to Ride the Lightning if you didn't like thrash metal??

I understand listening to the black album as there's no thrash there, but RTL??

I have friends.

How does this relate to what I was asking? Do you mean that you have friends that had the album and that's how you heard it?

And?? Since you said you got the other albums, you must tell us why you prefer the black album to any of the others.

I don't mean to prod, but could you be just slightly more specific in describing what it is you like about it? Favorite song from the album perhaps?
You mentioned MoP, is that your second choice?

Sorry, I just have a problem with people choosing the black album as it's basically a pop metal/sellout album..

BUT! you mentioned Sad But True and I respect that because it's easily the heaviest song from that album, and bears little of the pop elements most of the other songs have. Also the unforgiven is pretty good. I cannot stand the god that failed, that's one of my banned Metallica songs.

You mention that the songs translate well live, and I can't really argue with that. Aside from seek and destroy, fade to black, hit the lights, one...there's not really a lot of the thrash Metallica songs that I can see be particularly engaging live...

I'm surprised no one has picked Load and Reload yet, considering they're solid hard rock albums. If St. Anger can get votes, then surely these two can.

Ride the Lightning.

And this is my theme song.

Yeah, my friends have different musical tastes and we're mostly tolerant of each other's music. Actually, even my band is like that: drummer is more metal, rhythm guitarist is into punk and hip hop, bassist/guitarist is into jazz/folk/blues, lead guitar/synth is into drone and ambient, I (lead guitar and keys) am into psychedelic rock (Pink Floyd) and metal (from Dimmu Borgir to Iron Maiden) and flamenco (Paco de Lucia, Gypsy Kings, Sergei Orekhov).

As a musician, I try to listen to music as a producer might too. I can appreciate a lot of pop music.

My favorite is ...And justice for all! But I love the 5 first albums!

Ever listened to Don't Tread On Me? That's my fave from that album, and it's pretty heavy.

I love music. I have tons of stuff. I have pop from Michael Jackson to Prince, Soundtracks from Grease to Annie, etc. So the Black Album is pretty much a masterpiece of a combination of musical aesthetics. That is why when I call on my favorite Metallica masterpieces, I'll say there are five, instead of just four (I find Load to be a near masterpiece, but it is hard to catalog that album in with their metal output). I highly enjoy the Black Album because of the variety of choices of the music within. I thought Nothing Else Matters was fantastic as a slow ballad.

The one song that does get tiring, though, is the first: Enter Sandman; it's just played too often that I just get sick of hearing it. I usually skip that track...

He should've asked for a refund.

Progressive metal is hardly at the opposite end of the metal spectrum from thrash, a large amount of thrash and extreme metal bands have embraced progressive styles.

1. I've come to realize that the term "heavy" is extremely arbitrary. I use the term heavy mostly to describe a song that is composed primarily of riffs using a ton of overdrive electric guitar(s) with high pedal usage. I don't care about speed in playing, I actually prefer the slower stuff to thrash, which is one of the reasons I like Pantera so much.

Needless to say, none of the songs on black other than "Sad" and the solo on "The Unforgiven" are ANYTHING close to what I describe as "heavy." lol. I suppose to a pop listener (this isn't directed at you just so you know) the black album is heavy in the same way that British Steel could be considered heavy, but this album is pretty much the exact opposite of heavy.

2. I don't really know what to say about your view on Load, though I guess I will just say 'to each his own...' I find the first song on that album to be great, but the rest is forgettable.

3. I agree with you on Enter Sandman. 'Overplayed' doesn't do it justice.

I was going to say this earlier.


If you think Metallica's thrash is intense-which is arguably one of the least intense thrash metal bands-good God try listening to black metal or metalcore and THEN try to call thrash the opposite end of the melodic spectrum.

Also, I have to ask this, have you listened to ...And Justice or Kill Em All?

Anything before the Black Album gets my thumbs up !

I voted Ride the Lightning because it has no filler and the instrumentals are fantastic. Plus you still have Cliff in the group to take things up a notch. Kill 'Em All would be a close second because I love the raw Metallica sound. If I had to pick which to see live it would be Kill 'Em All era Metallica.

Arbitrary, aren't all opinions closely arbitrary?

I'd agree, but I think that there are a few good heavy tracks on there. Not Sad But True heavy, no. But most of them contain heavy riffs...

And this is why the album is highly regarded within most off-metal fans; it gave a way for new fans to get into the older stuff while still being able to make those new fans keep listening to their newer, future, releases if they couldn't get into it. I've never looked at that as selling out. It's just a "progression" onto different pastures. I'd probably do something similar, if I were a musician; you can't stay in the old mold if it's getting stagnant.

It's the same with the Black Album; it's different. The reason I love the Load album is because I love hard rock, too, and I am not offended when a band does something different. Yes, it'd be nice to get a few more like their first four, but they matured into different musicians, differing feelings, and thus they needed to find new material, though it was older than thrash metal.

Plus, have you ever heard James Hetfield try singing their old stuff? I saw Through The Never the other day. He can't do it. He can't even make anything off of the Black Album sound like it did when it first came out! And the way the audience is when he tries the old stuff, it's a wonder they don't walk out hearing just how thrashed his voice really is now. Pardon the pun, but Hetfield couldn't sing himself into a thrash band now if he tried. And that is why I disliked Death Magnetic; with a different singer with Hetfield's teenage vocal cords, it would've been so much better. Or they could have just made it an instrumental, would've been so SO much better!

And that is why I do like Load and reLoad. And some of their other stuff, like the covers on their Garage Days Inc. double album. They just can't do thrash with a lead singer that hasn't been able to hold onto his young voice. But that isn't the only reason why one should like those albums. It's just a good place to start defending them. Up until they listened to their fans and not themselves, trying to upgrade the metal sound into Nu-Metal. :usehead:

I still like the song. Listened to it yesterday. But yes, overplayed is a euphemism.


Whenever I think of thrash, and especially talk about why Metallica are my favorite thrash metal band, plus my liking of bands that are just plain rock, I always say that Metallica are the most melodic thrash band I have ever listened to. People have gotten on me about this, but it is the truth; I like melody. I call Slayer's Diabolus In Musica my favorite by them because to me it's the one with the most melody. Before the last year I only had Reign in Blood and up for albums, but now I have their two earlier albums (which are mostly black metal in sound) and I like them a bit more than most their others. I still like Slayer's DIM the most, though, because of the melody I hear. Or, maybe I am just crazy...?

And I think I just realized that your point, Wpnfire, in that quote, wasn't supposed to honor Metallica. Damn you! :laughing:

About Hetfield's classical training...

Hey! Don't be so mean:bringit:; Hetfield has enough money to allow for this...

But I agree with your point: if it was to help with his thrash vocals, it didn't. Or maybe it was supposed to kill his teenager cords...?

I still think thrash is opposite side of the spectrum: emphasis is on rhythm and percussion, and the emphasis on speed leads to less interesting phrasing. There may be less melodic things, but that doesn't make thrash more melodic.

It was a while ago that I listened to them, but yes. One is the only song I remember from either. I liked Sanitarium from Master of Puppets.. and, strangely, Battery. Of course, this is just what I remember from high school, which is about 15 years ago. Maybe if I gave them another listen today, I'd appreciate it more.

I'd say go for it. Metallica has subjects that are actually quite inspiring. They seem to like to send a message with their metal. That's what the lyrics suggest...

I'm not so moved by lyrics as the melodies, harmonies, and rhythms. I write a lot of melodies myself and have an interest in music theory and treating music as a language in general.

Well, then don't pay any attention to the lyrics! None at all.

This is for both of you. One of the most notable characteristics of heavy metal is that it is dissonant, and if not dissonant, harsh and aggressive then. The fact that you both like the black album specifically for the harmony is one of the reasons I consider the black album to be barely a heavy metal album. The black album uses overdrive guitars, but nothing else about it is what I consider to be heavy metal.
The black album trades in the harsh, dissonant aspects of heavy metal for a more melodic, slower, lyrical-oriented sound (there's no instrumentals which ALL of their previous albums had) with an emphasis on the chorus in particular. The difference is just shocking.

The fact that the black album is considered to be from the same genre as Iron Man by Black Sabbath just baffles me. They sound so entirely different (outside of the songs like Sad But True and the Unforgiven, which are the closest representatives of the heavy metal sound from Metallica's previous albums).

The black album isn't even a good representation of Metallica's earlier material. Xurito even said she doesn't like their earlier material outside of a few songs. It's an entirely different album that I just wish never came into existence. Michael Jackson's Beat It, is more representative of the heavy metal genre than 90% of the songs from the black album, and I'm being 100% serious with that statement.

I agree that Metallica may be the most melodic thrash band, though Megadeth is really close in that department. Mustiane is really a genius songwriter (less than he thinks about himself, but still great) and his work gets lost in the extreme speed of many of Megadeths' songs. The melody is there, it's just surrounded by intense, aggressive guitar playing.

I like Megadeth. My favorite metal band is probably Dimmu Borgir.