Wpnfire

1. I've come to realize that the term "heavy" is extremely arbitrary. I use the term heavy mostly to describe a song that is composed primarily of riffs using a ton of overdrive electric guitar(s) with high pedal usage. I don't care about speed in playing, I actually prefer the slower stuff to thrash, which is one of the reasons I like Pantera so much.

Needless to say, none of the songs on black other than "Sad" and the solo on "The Unforgiven" are ANYTHING close to what I describe as "heavy." lol. I suppose to a pop listener (this isn't directed at you just so you know) the black album is heavy in the same way that British Steel could be considered heavy, but this album is pretty much the exact opposite of heavy.

2. I don't really know what to say about your view on Load, though I guess I will just say 'to each his own...' I find the first song on that album to be great, but the rest is forgettable.

3. I agree with you on Enter Sandman. 'Overplayed' doesn't do it justice.

I was going to say this earlier.


If you think Metallica's thrash is intense-which is arguably one of the least intense thrash metal bands-good God try listening to black metal or metalcore and THEN try to call thrash the opposite end of the melodic spectrum.

Also, I have to ask this, have you listened to ...And Justice or Kill Em All?

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fractalign

Anything before the Black Album gets my thumbs up !

Frownland

I voted Ride the Lightning because it has no filler and the instrumentals are fantastic. Plus you still have Cliff in the group to take things up a notch. Kill 'Em All would be a close second because I love the raw Metallica sound. If I had to pick which to see live it would be Kill 'Em All era Metallica.

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Musicfanatic

Arbitrary, aren't all opinions closely arbitrary?

I'd agree, but I think that there are a few good heavy tracks on there. Not Sad But True heavy, no. But most of them contain heavy riffs...

And this is why the album is highly regarded within most off-metal fans; it gave a way for new fans to get into the older stuff while still being able to make those new fans keep listening to their newer, future, releases if they couldn't get into it. I've never looked at that as selling out. It's just a "progression" onto different pastures. I'd probably do something similar, if I were a musician; you can't stay in the old mold if it's getting stagnant.

It's the same with the Black Album; it's different. The reason I love the Load album is because I love hard rock, too, and I am not offended when a band does something different. Yes, it'd be nice to get a few more like their first four, but they matured into different musicians, differing feelings, and thus they needed to find new material, though it was older than thrash metal.

Plus, have you ever heard James Hetfield try singing their old stuff? I saw Through The Never the other day. He can't do it. He can't even make anything off of the Black Album sound like it did when it first came out! And the way the audience is when he tries the old stuff, it's a wonder they don't walk out hearing just how thrashed his voice really is now. Pardon the pun, but Hetfield couldn't sing himself into a thrash band now if he tried. And that is why I disliked Death Magnetic; with a different singer with Hetfield's teenage vocal cords, it would've been so much better. Or they could have just made it an instrumental, would've been so SO much better!

And that is why I do like Load and reLoad. And some of their other stuff, like the covers on their Garage Days Inc. double album. They just can't do thrash with a lead singer that hasn't been able to hold onto his young voice. But that isn't the only reason why one should like those albums. It's just a good place to start defending them. Up until they listened to their fans and not themselves, trying to upgrade the metal sound into Nu-Metal.

I still like the song. Listened to it yesterday. But yes, overplayed is a euphemism.


Whenever I think of thrash, and especially talk about why Metallica are my favorite thrash metal band, plus my liking of bands that are just plain rock, I always say that Metallica are the most melodic thrash band I have ever listened to. People have gotten on me about this, but it is the truth; I like melody. I call Slayer's Diabolus In Musica my favorite by them because to me it's the one with the most melody. Before the last year I only had Reign in Blood and up for albums, but now I have their two earlier albums (which are mostly black metal in sound) and I like them a bit more than most their others. I still like Slayer's DIM the most, though, because of the melody I hear. Or, maybe I am just crazy...?

And I think I just realized that your point, Wpnfire, in that quote, wasn't supposed to honor Metallica. Damn you!

About Hetfield's classical training...

Hey! Don't be so mean; Hetfield has enough money to allow for this...

But I agree with your point: if it was to help with his thrash vocals, it didn't. Or maybe it was supposed to kill his teenager cords...?

Xurtio

I still think thrash is opposite side of the spectrum: emphasis is on rhythm and percussion, and the emphasis on speed leads to less interesting phrasing. There may be less melodic things, but that doesn't make thrash more melodic.

It was a while ago that I listened to them, but yes. One is the only song I remember from either. I liked Sanitarium from Master of Puppets.. and, strangely, Battery. Of course, this is just what I remember from high school, which is about 15 years ago. Maybe if I gave them another listen today, I'd appreciate it more.

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Musicfanatic

I'd say go for it. Metallica has subjects that are actually quite inspiring. They seem to like to send a message with their metal. That's what the lyrics suggest...

Xurtio

I'm not so moved by lyrics as the melodies, harmonies, and rhythms. I write a lot of melodies myself and have an interest in music theory and treating music as a language in general.

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Musicfanatic

Well, then don't pay any attention to the lyrics! None at all.

Wpnfire

This is for both of you. One of the most notable characteristics of heavy metal is that it is dissonant, and if not dissonant, harsh and aggressive then. The fact that you both like the black album specifically for the harmony is one of the reasons I consider the black album to be barely a heavy metal album. The black album uses overdrive guitars, but nothing else about it is what I consider to be heavy metal.
The black album trades in the harsh, dissonant aspects of heavy metal for a more melodic, slower, lyrical-oriented sound (there's no instrumentals which ALL of their previous albums had) with an emphasis on the chorus in particular. The difference is just shocking.

The fact that the black album is considered to be from the same genre as Iron Man by Black Sabbath just baffles me. They sound so entirely different (outside of the songs like Sad But True and the Unforgiven, which are the closest representatives of the heavy metal sound from Metallica's previous albums).

The black album isn't even a good representation of Metallica's earlier material. Xurito even said she doesn't like their earlier material outside of a few songs. It's an entirely different album that I just wish never came into existence. Michael Jackson's Beat It, is more representative of the heavy metal genre than 90% of the songs from the black album, and I'm being 100% serious with that statement.

I agree that Metallica may be the most melodic thrash band, though Megadeth is really close in that department. Mustiane is really a genius songwriter (less than he thinks about himself, but still great) and his work gets lost in the extreme speed of many of Megadeths' songs. The melody is there, it's just surrounded by intense, aggressive guitar playing.

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Xurtio

I like Megadeth. My favorite metal band is probably Dimmu Borgir.

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