Was Korn's debut album the darkest, most ground breaking metal album of its time?

Soda Pop Fu · 08-21-2013, 02:31 PM

I used to be a big Korn fan during their rise but I dropped off after their 3rd album and haven't listened to their debut album in over a decade. I recently started listening to it again with my "matured" musical ears and was blown away. It's one of my favorite metal albums of all time now. I know some will say it is heavily flawed from a technical standpoint, but it shouldn't compared to traditional heavy metal or death metal because it is a completely different style. From a creative, expressive and stylistic standpoint, was there anything else like it? It was more melodic, expressive, rhythmic and darker than anything Pantera or Helmet did, who they are usually compared to. It was like metals version of The Scream painting by Edvard Munch. Thoughts?

Ninetales · 08-21-2013, 03:41 PM

In the Nightshade Eclipse came out the same year, so no. Im actually confused on your question to be honest. Youre asking if it's the "most groundbreaking metal album of its time" but then say "it shouldn't compared to traditional heavy metal or death metal because it is a completely different style"

~~butthead aka 216~~ · 08-21-2013, 04:00 PM

i cant comment too much on technical aspect or whatever

but

i see korn get a lot of hate. imo a lot of that hate is from ppl who used to listen to korn in their youth and a lot of ppl look back on past trends or bands they were into and kinda shake their head. as a non metal fan i thought korn was sick cause it kinda introduced me to a new sound

**Janszoon** · 08-21-2013, 04:12 PM

When that album came out I didn't think of it as particularly groundbreaking at all. I liked maybe two songs on it and found the rest of the album to be pretty mediocre. I've gone back and listened to it in the past few years and found that it's aged poorly.

Dr_Rez · 08-21-2013, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

When that album came out I didn't think of it as particularly groundbreaking at all. I liked maybe two songs on it and found the rest of the album to be pretty mediocre. I've gone back and listened to it in the past few years and found that it's aged poorly.

Wrong. It was the single most groundbreaking album OF ALL TIME.

Unknown Soldier · 08-21-2013, 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soda Pop Fu

I used to be a big Korn fan during their rise but I dropped off after their 3rd album and haven't listened to their debut album in over a decade. I recently started listening to it again with my "matured" musical ears and was blown away. It's one of my favorite metal albums of all time now. I know some will say it is heavily flawed from a technical standpoint, but it shouldn't compared to traditional heavy metal or death metal because it is a completely different style. From a creative, expressive and stylistic standpoint, was there anything else like it? It was more melodic, expressive, rhythmic and darker than anything Pantera or Helmet did, who they are usually compared to. It was like metals version of The Scream painting by Edvard Munch. Thoughts?

It was certainly groundbreaking in that it borrowed off a whole load of existing metal artists including the two you mentioned. It was groundbreaking in that they built on these influences rather than just copying them, the problem was though, that Korn themselves couldn't and didn't have the ability to build from the quality of their own debut album and seriously went downhill quality wise.

Soda Pop Fu · 08-21-2013, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ninetales

In the Nightshade Eclipse came out the same year, so no. Im actually confused on your question to be honest. Youre asking if it's the "most groundbreaking metal album of its time" but then say "it shouldn't compared to traditional heavy metal or death metal because it is a completely different style"

Yeah I worded that kind of confusing. What meant is that I'm not looking at its technical quality and how "good" the songs were which is what people usually do when comparing them to other metal albums of the time. Instead I'm just referring to its unique musical style and the darkness of the album, in both the vocals and the guitars (guitars were much darker and more haunting than the metal of the 80's that I've heard). Death metal stuff was very dark too, but a lot of it felt like a gimmick and was centered around the occult. Korn had a more personal darkness that I just haven't really heard on a hard rock album before. Their style and rhythm was incredibly unique too, and I don't think the bands they are usually compared to (Pantera, Helmet) are that comparable at all. It spawned a new style of metal/rock, and opened up a genre for some really dark personal lyrical content. What other hard rock/metal albums had that effect in the early 90s?

bob. · 08-21-2013, 07:10 PM

are they really compared to Helmet and Pantera? neither sound anything like Korn....and i would think that only Pantera would attract the same listeners

anyways to answer your question....no not at all

in no way am i "hatin'" on Korn....although i can't stand them....but in all honesty i couldn't stand them when that album came out....i will say they were in many ways different and by all means talented....just not my cup of tea

i also agree to a point that they very much opened up a market for the music they played...and probably had as much to do with the fusion of "metal" and rap as Rage Against the Machine did

as far as being innovators of dark personal lyrics....no...they just made it popular and radio friendly

Surell · 08-21-2013, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soda Pop Fu

Korn had a more personal darkness that I just haven't really heard on a hard rock album before... What other hard rock/metal albums had that effect in the early 90s?

In Utero came out about a year before and was pretty dark as well as experimental as far as that band was concerned, as well as hard rock, even metal based much like Korn. Just saying.

**Janszoon** · 08-22-2013, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Soda Pop Fu

...I'm just referring to its unique musical style and the darkness of the album, in both the vocals and the guitars (guitars were much darker and more haunting than the metal of the 80's that I've heard).

You want some dark guitar and vocals from the 80s? I'll give you dark guitar and vocals from the 80s.

08-21-2013, 02:31 PM	#1 (permalink)
Soda Pop Fu Groupie Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Best Coast Posts: 18	Was Korn's debut album the darkest, most ground breaking metal album of its time? I used to be a big Korn fan during their rise but I dropped off after their 3rd album and haven't listened to their debut album in over a decade. I recently started listening to it again with my "matured" musical ears and was blown away. It's one of my favorite metal albums of all time now. I know some will say it is heavily flawed from a technical standpoint, but it shouldn't compared to traditional heavy metal or death metal because it is a completely different style. From a creative, expressive and stylistic standpoint, was there anything else like it? It was more melodic, expressive, rhythmic and darker than anything Pantera or Helmet did, who they are usually compared to. It was like metals version of The Scream painting by Edvard Munch. Thoughts?

08-21-2013, 04:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
Janszoon Mate, Spawn & Die Join Date: May 2007 Location: The Rapping Community Posts: 24,593	When that album came out I didn't think of it as particularly groundbreaking at all. I liked maybe two songs on it and found the rest of the album to be pretty mediocre. I've gone back and listened to it in the past few years and found that it's aged poorly. __________________ A Night in the Life of the Invisible Man Time & Place 25 Albums You Should Hear Before the Moon Crashes into the Earth and We All Die last.fm

08-21-2013, 07:10 PM	#8 (permalink)
bob. Still sends his reguards. Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Trying to get out of the cat town.... Posts: 5,039	are they really compared to Helmet and Pantera? neither sound anything like Korn....and i would think that only Pantera would attract the same listeners anyways to answer your question....no not at all in no way am i "hatin'" on Korn....although i can't stand them....but in all honesty i couldn't stand them when that album came out....i will say they were in many ways different and by all means talented....just not my cup of tea i also agree to a point that they very much opened up a market for the music they played...and probably had as much to do with the fusion of "metal" and rap as Rage Against the Machine did as far as being innovators of dark personal lyrics....no...they just made it popular and radio friendly __________________ A kiss is the beginning of cannibalism. Reach out, pierce the fine fabric of the sheltering sky, take repose.

08-21-2013, 03:41 PM	#2 (permalink)
Ninetales Music Addict Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: livin wild Posts: 2,179	In the Nightshade Eclipse came out the same year, so no. Im actually confused on your question to be honest. Youre asking if it's the "most groundbreaking metal album of its time" but then say "it shouldn't compared to traditional heavy metal or death metal because it is a completely different style"

08-21-2013, 04:00 PM	#3 (permalink)
~~butthead aka 216~~ Account Disabled Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: freely swimmin thru the waters of glory much like a majestic bald eagle soars thru the skies Posts: 1,463	i cant comment too much on technical aspect or whatever but i see korn get a lot of hate. imo a lot of that hate is from ppl who used to listen to korn in their youth and a lot of ppl look back on past trends or bands they were into and kinda shake their head. as a non metal fan i thought korn was sick cause it kinda introduced me to a new sound