The Metallica Paradox.

**Janszoon** · 03-23-2013, 08:15 AM

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Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

I hate ....And Justice For All more than the black album.

For years I thought most people felt that way. I was genuinely shocked to discover that not only do people like that turd of an album but consider it one of their best.

It's actually only since I joined MB that I discovered that there are a bunch of people who don't like AJFA, which I always find kind of surprising. It's not a perfect album (I could definitely do without "To Live is to Die" for example), but I put it on par with RtL and like it more than K'EA or the black album.

The Batlord · 03-23-2013, 10:40 AM

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Originally Posted by tore

I agree with a lot of this. Bitching because a band changes style is so overdone and formulaic.

They made four thrash metal albums where they overdubbed just about everything. So they changed things up a bit, both sound and production method, who wouldn't? And it just so happens that became their biggest seller .. good production too and, I think, interesting to hear them so capable of doing something else. Is that so bad? Get over it already!

Sometimes I think people just wanna have the cool non-mainstream opinion (Black Album sucks) rather than an honest one (it doesn't really).

Or I just think it's boring. Do I have to pretend to like it to not look like a snob or something?

Guybrush · 03-23-2013, 11:51 AM

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Originally Posted by The Batlord

Or I just think it's boring. Do I have to pretend to like it to not look like a snob or something?

Of course you don't, but saying the album sucks (if you do) shows a lack of ability to take a step back and look at it from a more objective point of view. Does it really? There are albums I don't personally get spastic over, but it doesn't mean I'll badmouth them at every opportune moment. Sometimes, I can see why they're great even if they're not exactly to my taste.

The Batlord · 03-23-2013, 11:59 AM

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Originally Posted by tore

Of course you don't, but saying the album sucks (if you do) shows a lack of ability to take a step back and look at it from a more objective point of view. Does it really? There are albums I don't personally get spastic over, but it doesn't mean I'll badmouth them at every opportune moment. Sometimes, I can see why they're great even if they're not exactly to my taste.

Or maybe I just think the album sucks. And I don't necessarily jump to badmouth Lil Wayne like I would The Black Album because I don't care enough about Lil Wayne to bother spending as much time or emotion as I do on Metallica. So when they have a bad album I care more about it than I do about some other artist's bad album.

Musicfanatic · 03-23-2013, 01:13 PM

Good points all around. Like I said, I understand that most old school Metallica fans hate anything that doesn't sound like their earlier albums. And I understand the need to ridicule it. But I get irritated when another person all but puts another fan down for liking something that another can't stand. And it seemed that that was what was going on.

We cannot all have the same opinions, but we can be somewhat respectful of other's...

Unknown Soldier · 03-23-2013, 01:38 PM

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Originally Posted by The Batlord

Hell yeah. You can call it a thrash album, but it's really just one of the greatest and most intense straight up heavy metal albums ever made. Like Holocaust and Diamond Head combined with hardcore punk.

X2

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Originally Posted by mojopinuk

Exactly. Threres a strong argument to be made that the Black Album is their crowning achievement.

I stated this on another thread, that Metallica wanted to make an accessible album for the masses and they achieved it with this album. If you want to become one of the biggest bands on the planet, you have to appeal to the widest possible audience out there and they did exactly that. Personally I don't like the album, but that is besides the point.

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Originally Posted by Musicfanatic

You guys can be like a bunch of religious zealots when it comes to this Metallica thing. I am probably one of the biggest fans of the band here, with many others claiming them to be subpar to many other metal acts. But then everyone wants to put down an album because it's different than the others before it. I get that, really I do, but I cannot accept the blatant stupidity that gets thrown around because it isn't a thrash album.

Look at Death Magnetic for modern day thrash. That's what we could have gotten instead of the Black Album, and I for one am glad that they had at least one more great album in them that was journeying towards where their style and vocal maturity was heading. Before we got something that was trying to reenter their old territory, a realm in which they would have been smart in throwing in the towel. I look at the Black Album as their last really great album. My favorite Metallica album? Helk no! That'd be Kill 'Em All. As Fred Hale Sr. was so apt in mentioning.

But to put down the Black Album because it wasn't a conventional choice? It's loaded with great material. Don't Tread On Me, Of Wolf and Man, The Struggle Within, Sad But True, The God That Failed, Through the Never, etc.

No, it's not thrash, I can agree with that. But it's as near a masterpiece as you can get once you look at the changes and possibilities of where they could have gone with it: Death Magnetic, now that's the failure...

I don't think anybody sees them as sub-par with other metal acts. they're one of the most important metal acts ever. Being as big as they got allowed them the freedom to put out more or less what they wanted with guaranteed sales. I think over the last 10 years they've gone stale but so do a lot of bands who've been around for a long time. Saying that though I liked Death Magnetic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Janszoon

It's actually only since I joined MB that I discovered that there are a bunch of people who don't like AJFA, which I always find kind of surprising. It's not a perfect album (I could definitely do without "To Live is to Die" for example), but I put it on par with RtL and like it more than K'EA or the black album.

Before I joined the forum I always thought of it as the most hated Metallica album ever and then was surprised at how many people love it. I think the album idea was good and in essence the songs were good. But each song would've benefitted from being shorter and worked out better. The album's big failing as most know was in its final mix.

**Janszoon** · 03-23-2013, 02:50 PM

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Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Before I joined the forum I always thought of it as the most hated Metallica album ever and then was surprised at how many people love it.

I almost wonder if it breaks down by country. I think everyone I've heard on here who hates AJFA is from your part of the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

I think the album idea was good and in essence the songs were good. But each song would've benefitted from being shorter and worked out better. The album's big failing as most know was in its final mix.

I do definitely agree that some of the tracks would be better if they were shorter.

Unknown Soldier · 03-23-2013, 03:03 PM

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Originally Posted by Janszoon

I almost wonder if it breaks down by country. I think everyone I've heard on here who hates AJFA is from your part of the world.

Possibly, but I can't see any logic behind that belief though.

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I do definitely agree that some of the tracks would be better if they were shorter.

When a band does extended tracks they usually need to be adept at song craft and be able to fill out the song with quality, or be adept at knowing how to jam in an interesting way. I don't think Metallica were particuarly great at either of these two styles, but then again metal groups aren't expected to be great in these areas.

**Janszoon** · 03-23-2013, 03:33 PM

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Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Possibly, but I can't see any logic behind that belief though.

Why does there have to be logic to it? It may just have to do with the prevailing tastes in one region versus another. There are certainly plenty of examples of music being well received in one place and not in another.

Unknown Soldier · 03-23-2013, 03:46 PM

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Originally Posted by Janszoon

Why does there have to be logic to it? It may just have to do with the prevailing tastes in one region versus another. There are certainly plenty of examples of music being well received in one place and not in another.

In general that's true for most genres of music and types of band etc. But here we're talking about the 'metal genre' which is a fairly tight community wherever you go in the world and there is a general consensus on what's good and bad. But here you're saying the dividing line is between regions namely the US and UK that have very large metal followings. Sounds like a Metallica paradox to me.

03-23-2013, 01:13 PM	#55 (permalink)
Musicfanatic Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 225	Good points all around. Like I said, I understand that most old school Metallica fans hate anything that doesn't sound like their earlier albums. And I understand the need to ridicule it. But I get irritated when another person all but puts another fan down for liking something that another can't stand. And it seemed that that was what was going on. We cannot all have the same opinions, but we can be somewhat respectful of other's...