The Metallica Paradox.

Mojo · 03-20-2013, 10:34 AM

Yeah, but what qualifies as quality is a preference. The Black Album brought Metallica to a mainstream audience, possibly an audience who prefer that album to anything that came before it and whose opinion would be very different. So the one thing that isn't arguable is that it outsold any other metal album ever made (unless you want to class Led Zep, AC/DC and GnR as metal bands) and that, in itself, could be considered a crowning achievement.

**Janszoon** · 03-20-2013, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojopinuk

Yeah, but what qualifies as quality is a preference. The Black Album brought Metallica to a mainstream audience, possibly an audience who prefer that album to anything that came before it and whose opinion would be very different. So the one thing that isn't arguable is that it outsold any other metal album ever made (unless you want to class Led Zep, AC/DC and GnR as metal bands) and that, in itself, could be considered a crowning achievement.

Yes, of course it's a preference. I was giving my personal opinion on the quality of the album. It's not a bad album, but I don't think it's their crowning achievement. I prefer any of the three albums that immediately preceded it. The fact that was so popular is neither here nor there to me in terms of my personal assessment of the album's quality. The simple fact is, when I'm in the mood for Metallica, it's not an album I'm very likely to reach for.

Plankton · 03-20-2013, 10:40 AM

When you go from "My Mother was a witch" to some lame version of a nursery rhyme, it's time to throw in the towel.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 03-20-2013, 11:40 AM

It's a shame now that when you say Garage Days people think of the dull album rather than the really good E.P.

Musicfanatic · 03-20-2013, 06:09 PM

You guys can be like a bunch of religious zealots when it comes to this Metallica thing. I am probably one of the biggest fans of the band here, with many others claiming them to be subpar to many other metal acts. But then everyone wants to put down an album because it's different than the others before it. I get that, really I do, but I cannot accept the blatant stupidity that gets thrown around because it isn't a thrash album.

Look at Death Magnetic for modern day thrash. That's what we could have gotten instead of the Black Album, and I for one am glad that they had at least one more great album in them that was journeying towards where their style and vocal maturity was heading. Before we got something that was trying to reenter their old territory, a realm in which they would have been smart in throwing in the towel. I look at the Black Album as their last really great album. My favorite Metallica album? Helk no! That'd be Kill 'Em All. As Fred Hale Sr. was so apt in mentioning.

But to put down the Black Album because it wasn't a conventional choice? It's loaded with great material. Don't Tread On Me, Of Wolf and Man, The Struggle Within, Sad But True, The God That Failed, Through the Never, etc.

No, it's not thrash, I can agree with that. But it's as near a masterpiece as you can get once you look at the changes and possibilities of where they could have gone with it: Death Magnetic, now that's the failure...

Urban Hat€monger ? · 03-20-2013, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musicfanatic

But then everyone wants to put down an album because it's different than the others before it. I get that, really I do, but I cannot accept the blatant stupidity that gets thrown around because it isn't a thrash album.

That's a rather blanket statement to make.
I prefer to take things on an individual basis. Some bands can do different things and pull it off, some bands can't.

I could give you plenty of reasons why I'm not the slightest bit interested in Metallica these days, the main one being that I'm not 14 years old any more and I like my music to consist of a bit more than some chuggy riffs & some guy singing 'yeaaahhhhhh'.

If I listen to Metallica it's out of nostalgia for the first 3 albums, after that they just bored me and I grew up.

Musicfanatic · 03-21-2013, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

That's a rather blanket statement to make.

What exactly does that mean?

Quote:

I prefer to take things on an individual basis. Some bands can do different things and pull it off, some bands can't.

So, what you are saying is that Metallica didn't pull of a purely rock slash heavy-non-thrash-metal record?

Quote:

I could give you plenty of reasons why I'm not the slightest bit interested in Metallica these days, the main one being that I'm not 14 years old any more and I like my music to consist of a bit more than some chuggy riffs & some guy singing 'yeaaahhhhhh'.

Yes, but that statement is neither here nor there. We're talking about genre and genre bending and breaking. Not whether you're now into that kind of thing, but whether it was successful and or good or not.

Quote:

If I listen to Metallica it's out of nostalgia for the first 3 albums, after that they just bored me and I grew up.

So, are you saying that every Metallica fan that happens to really feel this music and listens to it more often than not is inferior to those who only listen to them when in that mood? Or are you stating that you don't like Load and reLoad and the rest after those? Because if you are saying that they bored you as their musical inspiration and influence changed, then you are for their rawer sound, and therefor don't like it when they expanded their craft into an entirely different realm of music?

I think that Metallica's fans can be quite immature, because if it isn't old school all the way or no way then it's no way, hence my finding it stupid to put down an album just because it was a little, or a lot, different. I suppose the Black Album was merely meant for real Metallica fans

And I guess that I just get it...maybe on more level than you are willing to get. This is getting too philosophical...

The Batlord · 03-22-2013, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musicfanatic

I suppose the Black Album was merely meant for real Metallica fans

And I guess that I just get it...maybe on more level than you are willing to get. This is getting too philosophical...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hat€monger ?

If I listen to Metallica it's out of nostalgia for the first 3 albums, after that they just bored me and I grew up.

Yeah, you're totally off base, Urban.

Guybrush · 03-23-2013, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Musicfanatic

You guys can be like a bunch of religious zealots when it comes to this Metallica thing. I am probably one of the biggest fans of the band here, with many others claiming them to be subpar to many other metal acts. But then everyone wants to put down an album because it's different than the others before it. I get that, really I do, but I cannot accept the blatant stupidity that gets thrown around because it isn't a thrash album.

Look at Death Magnetic for modern day thrash. That's what we could have gotten instead of the Black Album, and I for one am glad that they had at least one more great album in them that was journeying towards where their style and vocal maturity was heading. Before we got something that was trying to reenter their old territory, a realm in which they would have been smart in throwing in the towel. I look at the Black Album as their last really great album. My favorite Metallica album? Helk no! That'd be Kill 'Em All. As Fred Hale Sr. was so apt in mentioning.

But to put down the Black Album because it wasn't a conventional choice? It's loaded with great material. Don't Tread On Me, Of Wolf and Man, The Struggle Within, Sad But True, The God That Failed, Through the Never, etc.

No, it's not thrash, I can agree with that. But it's as near a masterpiece as you can get once you look at the changes and possibilities of where they could have gone with it: Death Magnetic, now that's the failure...

I agree with a lot of this. Bitching because a band changes style is so overdone and formulaic.

They made four thrash metal albums where they overdubbed just about everything. So they changed things up a bit, both sound and production method, who wouldn't? And it just so happens that became their biggest seller .. good production too and, I think, interesting to hear them so capable of doing something else. Is that so bad? Get over it already!

Sometimes I think people just wanna have the cool non-mainstream opinion (Black Album sucks) rather than an honest one (it doesn't really).

**Janszoon** · 03-23-2013, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tore

I agree with a lot of this. Bitching because a band changes style is so overdone and formulaic.

They made four thrash metal albums where they overdubbed just about everything. So they changed things up a bit, both sound and production method, who wouldn't? And it just so happens that became their biggest seller .. good production too and, I think, interesting to hear them so capable of doing something else. Is that so bad? Get over it already!

Sometimes I think people just wanna have the cool non-mainstream opinion (Black Album sucks) rather than an honest one (it doesn't really).

Or maybe some people just don't like the black album. I don't like Kill 'Em All but I don't think people who like it are just pretending so they'll look cool.

03-20-2013, 10:34 AM	#1 (permalink)
Mojo Melancholia Eternally Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: England Posts: 5,018	Yeah, but what qualifies as quality is a preference. The Black Album brought Metallica to a mainstream audience, possibly an audience who prefer that album to anything that came before it and whose opinion would be very different. So the one thing that isn't arguable is that it outsold any other metal album ever made (unless you want to class Led Zep, AC/DC and GnR as metal bands) and that, in itself, could be considered a crowning achievement. __________________ Last.FM \| Echoes and Dust

03-20-2013, 10:40 AM	#3 (permalink)
Plankton Just Keep Swimming... Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: See signature... Posts: 7,765	When you go from "My Mother was a witch" to some lame version of a nursery rhyme, it's time to throw in the towel. __________________ See location...

03-20-2013, 11:40 AM	#4 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,626	It's a shame now that when you say Garage Days people think of the dull album rather than the really good E.P. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.

03-20-2013, 06:09 PM	#5 (permalink)
Musicfanatic Music Addict Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 225	You guys can be like a bunch of religious zealots when it comes to this Metallica thing. I am probably one of the biggest fans of the band here, with many others claiming them to be subpar to many other metal acts. But then everyone wants to put down an album because it's different than the others before it. I get that, really I do, but I cannot accept the blatant stupidity that gets thrown around because it isn't a thrash album. Look at Death Magnetic for modern day thrash. That's what we could have gotten instead of the Black Album, and I for one am glad that they had at least one more great album in them that was journeying towards where their style and vocal maturity was heading. Before we got something that was trying to reenter their old territory, a realm in which they would have been smart in throwing in the towel. I look at the Black Album as their last really great album. My favorite Metallica album? Helk no! That'd be Kill 'Em All. As Fred Hale Sr. was so apt in mentioning. But to put down the Black Album because it wasn't a conventional choice? It's loaded with great material. Don't Tread On Me, Of Wolf and Man, The Struggle Within, Sad But True, The God That Failed, Through the Never, etc. No, it's not thrash, I can agree with that. But it's as near a masterpiece as you can get once you look at the changes and possibilities of where they could have gone with it: Death Magnetic, now that's the failure...