Does amazing music justify the grief that produced it?

attested_psycho · 12-12-2011, 09:11 PM

If an artist is suffering and still working hard as hell to put his/her emotions into a work of art, it probably means that the work in question is one of the few things that keep him/her going through that dark period of time. If you commit yourself to work on something you love doing, it's often the best way, and sometimes the only one, to surmount all that's wrong in your life.

starrynight · 12-14-2011, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by attested_psycho

If an artist is suffering and still working hard as hell to put his/her emotions into a work of art, it probably means that the work in question is one of the few things that keep him/her going through that dark period of time. If you commit yourself to work on something you love doing, it's often the best way, and sometimes the only one, to surmount all that's wrong in your life.

Absolutely. The best way to get through life at times with the disgusting conceited, judgemental and personal ignorance of people who you often have to meet, or through physical difficulties with your health, is to engross yourself in what you love. Maybe that means you miss out on other things, but at least you can say you tried to enjoy yourself in your brief life which we have no way of knowing will be long or not.

Howard the Duck · 12-18-2011, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electrophonic Tonic

If anyone knows the story of Brian Wilson as he was trying to write SMiLE, it's hard to justify that the music justified what Brain went through. A combination of depression and a complete mental breakdown was due to medical history and drug use, but the pressure he felt he was under to try and out do the Beatles was a major factor. Obviously, SMiLE was never released and it pretty much ended Brian Wilson's career with the Beach Boys. Probably the only reason their late 60's-early 70's albums have any credence is because each one features 2-3 tracks from SMiLE that Wilson never finished and the rest of the band touched up. So, if the grief Brian Wilson went through justified the music... I'm gonna say no because it figuratively, and almost literally, killed him. And his masterpiece lives on as a scattered mess, as it was pulled apart and recycled on albums he had little to do with.

But, this demo of 'Surf's Up' was recorded near the tail end of the sessions and when Brian was on the verge of his full mental breakdown. If someone asked me what the most beautiful piece of music I ever heard was... I'd say this. If it means anything, Elvis Costello said it was like discovering a lost piece of Mozart.

If you have 15 minutes, the Wikipedia article is very accurate with the book I read about the SMiLE sessions. Smile (The Beach Boys album) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I disagree with that totally, all the post-trauma Brian albums are very underrated, and features some pretty good compositions from the other members, up until Holland, then they pretty much sucked, until a glimpse of Brian's recovery on Love You, then they spiralled into the abyss

Brian more or less completed his own version of Smile, while it is still quite good, i don't think it was awesome

the recently released Smile Sessions shows more promise, and what a grand statement it would have made in 1967 had Brian finished it then, then again, it would be considerably shortened since long albums were generally not the sort of thing for the BB's record company

another example of making great music whilst struggling to perceive reality as it is, and grounded in madness would be Syd Barrett's two albums, they're both very strange but have a unique charm not found on any other record

and back to Brian, Smiley Smile, though not what he wanted, is still a pretty interesting record

Avenged Bullet · 12-24-2011, 03:57 PM

I think so.

It can be a healing process for the artist and viewer/listener alike.

the artist is able to get their feeling out in song/paper/acting, this can help them get over, or help overcome whatever they're going through.

The consumer will be able to identify with it and feel as if they're not alone and just able to feel.

I know music has helped me through many a dark times, and still to this day helps me deal with stress.

duga · 12-24-2011, 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Electrophonic Tonic

If anyone knows the story of Brian Wilson as he was trying to write SMiLE, it's hard to justify that the music justified what Brain went through. A combination of depression and a complete mental breakdown was due to medical history and drug use, but the pressure he felt he was under to try and out do the Beatles was a major factor. Obviously, SMiLE was never released and it pretty much ended Brian Wilson's career with the Beach Boys. Probably the only reason their late 60's-early 70's albums have any credence is because each one features 2-3 tracks from SMiLE that Wilson never finished and the rest of the band touched up. So, if the grief Brian Wilson went through justified the music... I'm gonna say no because it figuratively, and almost literally, killed him. And his masterpiece lives on as a scattered mess, as it was pulled apart and recycled on albums he had little to do with.

But, this demo of 'Surf's Up' was recorded near the tail end of the sessions and when Brian was on the verge of his full mental breakdown. If someone asked me what the most beautiful piece of music I ever heard was... I'd say this. If it means anything, Elvis Costello said it was like discovering a lost piece of Mozart.

If you have 15 minutes, the Wikipedia article is very accurate with the book I read about the SMiLE sessions. Smile (The Beach Boys album) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They actually just released a compilation of the Smile sessions. It's supposed to represent Brian Wilson's ultimate vision of the project. I haven't listened to it yet, but it's been received pretty well.

Anyway, I agree with this. I've always been fascinated that the Beach Boys produced very upbeat music while behind the scenes, their creative genius was really hurting. Some of my favorite albums have been made in the same way. The Smashing Pumpkins album Siamese Dream is one of those. Billy Corgan was on the verge of a nervous breakdown, James and D'arcy just broke up after a tumultuous relationship, and Jimmy was spiraling out of control with drugs. The result is one of my favorite albums of all time.

In the end, I don't think it's about justifying anything. I feel this is just a result of the human urge to express exactly how we feel to others. When you are really hurting, words don't always convey the feeling. Music can get us a little closer. This is probably why we can relate to this kind of music so much more than your everyday methodical music. We hear stuff like Smile and go..."Man, this guy was really in a bad place. I've been there before..."

starrynight · 12-26-2011, 08:19 PM

I don't like a couple of tracks on the official Smile, so Smiley Smile is ultimately better for me I think.

Howard the Duck · 12-27-2011, 09:54 AM

Smiley Smile has a rather bizarre charm

KMS · 12-29-2011, 10:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starrynight

Also how is an artist in despair if he is producing a successful musical creation, he's probably quite happy at what he has done. If anything he/she is exorcising the grief and so finding a way to put it more in the past. So the work actually isn't just related to the grief, but is just as much related to the artist finding his way out of his problems. So if it justifies the grief, it also justifies his/her having found a way out of that grief too.

Ding Ding Ding.

KMS · 12-29-2011, 10:20 PM

Am I missing something with this Brian Wilson worship?

Necromancer · 12-29-2011, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMS

Am I missing something with this Brian Wilson worship?

You're not from the US are you?

12-24-2011, 03:57 PM	#24 (permalink)
Avenged Bullet Groupie Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Florida Posts: 20	I think so. It can be a healing process for the artist and viewer/listener alike. the artist is able to get their feeling out in song/paper/acting, this can help them get over, or help overcome whatever they're going through. The consumer will be able to identify with it and feel as if they're not alone and just able to feel. I know music has helped me through many a dark times, and still to this day helps me deal with stress. __________________ "When words fail...Music speaks"

12-26-2011, 08:19 PM	#26 (permalink)
starrynight Music Addict Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 937	I don't like a couple of tracks on the official Smile, so Smiley Smile is ultimately better for me I think. __________________ non-cliquey member of every music forum I participate on

12-12-2011, 09:11 PM	#21 (permalink)
attested_psycho Groupie Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: La Belle Province Posts: 19	If an artist is suffering and still working hard as hell to put his/her emotions into a work of art, it probably means that the work in question is one of the few things that keep him/her going through that dark period of time. If you commit yourself to work on something you love doing, it's often the best way, and sometimes the only one, to surmount all that's wrong in your life.

12-29-2011, 10:20 PM	#29 (permalink)
KMS Music Addict Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 117	Am I missing something with this Brian Wilson worship?