Political Statement in heavy metal on the role of white men in this world

hip hop bunny hop · 10-12-2011, 12:12 AM

^^^ I don't get it, either. At first I thought she was angling from a sort of quasi-Maoist-Thirld Worldist view, but even those folks retain the standard Marxist view that Colonialism was, fundamentally, progressive. She hasn't angled a primitivism argument, either.

Really, if this isn't a sockpuppet, it's just some weird brand of ethnocentric Liberalism.

Sophie_Scholl · 10-12-2011, 03:28 AM

Well, as I said, it was strange for myself too that this summer, when I thought about all of that thing, oil, power, politics, indigenous people, western countries, money WELL IMPERIALIST STRUCTURES, KAPITALIST MENTALITY, the poorest of Poor, DIGNITY, children without chances, AND ON THE OTHER HAND; "Us" having it all, all luxury from warm and cold water in each household, refridgorators are so "normal" to us that we don't even count them as an object of luxury, but as standard, television, cars, streetlights at night everywhere, supermarkets with tons of food in it and tons of food destroyed each day.... healthcare, options of traveling and being tourists, and all the more extreme luxuries of our white folks like plastic surgery, the extreme sports, the wish of staying youthful forever, becoming age of 80 or older.. while lots of people in other parts of the world have nothing - their land where they would just live and plant their own vegetable is taken, they are refugees, forced to move to big cities where there is not much electricity, not many schools, no internet, no jobs, maybe living in slums on piles of trash, catching diseases there, giving birth all by oneselve, not in a hospital... their children having to work as young as 5 years olds.... their liveexpectation in some countries like 40, 50 years old.... and and and. It is a crying shame and we all know! I always knew, but suddenly I FELT IT!!! In a way I am ashamed that it took me 34 years to feel it and cry about it! I ve never visited a third world country, (one of my next plan is to do so) but my family is multicultural, my aunt is from kyrgistan, ex sowjetunjon.... and the poorest country I ve visited so far might be turkey! Or, I was in Sarajevo (driving through bosnia) in 2002 - only 3 years after the war - and I 've seen extreme poverty and sadness and misery there.

Talking about my own political labelling or labelling for this thread - well, I would consider myself as a person that believes in non-violence very much. I vote socialist/democratic. Liberalism can be a good thing, BUT it also opens doors for cruel greedy capitalism. I prefer to have rules and laws than no laws at all or too liberal laws of which the greedy big business men profit more than the ones that start with little or nothing or below nothing...

AND - after all, I think we, the western rich ones (and even if you aren't "Rich" , like what one like us considers to be "rich" like being a millionaire, having a Rolls Royce or a Porsche and a fat villa or two in Aspen or Saint-Tropez) we are rich! BUT we hang in this together with the poor ones in lets say the miners of the congo or the mamas in the slums of nairobi.... if the rainforest dies, we are all gonna die of a global "smokers lung"!
And also there is so incredible much talent wasted in those poor countries, where people lack of employment, job opportunities, and and and. I don't get it why WE, the rich ones don't share with the poor LIKE just building STREETS; ELECTRICITY and INFRASTRUCTURE - LIke Hospitals - OR AT LEAST ask those poor countries if they would like our help or if that would feel for them als new colonialism and white superiority AGAIN.........

OH MAN I know I won't rescue this world on my own.... but... We here, our government, acts so civilized and all, but on the other hand, millions of millions die of hunger and in oil wars. OLD STORY, I know, but.... I feel like a lot of people tend to forget those poor people all the time, while we buy new parfumes, new fashion brands, go to destracting movies(e.g scary movie, or dumb and dumber), go in vacation, buy new designer furniture for our appartements, go to wellness spas to treat our cellulite - we are, quoting a famous book title of author Neil Postman, "Amusing ourselves to death"!
WHILE OUR RICHES ARE BUILT ON THE BLOOD OF OTHERS!!!! The oil and the raw material - hey, it really is.... OK, I end up lamenting here in this forum and it is not your fault dear metallers.... but recently I ended up searching for signs of selfreflection in white culture about this - statements about how we deal with the fact that our nations dominate the rest of the world.

Hiphop and Reggae and other Music from the other perspective, the perspective of being the victim, the one that was the slave and not the master - is full of statements of those conditions from slavery to being slaughtered.

And yes, Switzerland is one of the richest countries of all countries! I could do some more selfreflection on that too. Because we are a small country, the world doesn't talk about us so much....

Sry for being confusing and thanks again for bringing other bands up. I looked up the lyrics of "Speak english or die" and "Spreading the disease". by anthrax and this other band stormtroopers of death.

I think there are a lot of critical and cynical quotes to find in metal music - and for me, since from the sound of that music it is not sooo much my taste, this is a trip to an exotic country

Sophie_Scholl · 10-12-2011, 06:09 AM

hm - yes what do I want from you guys here? Well .... nothing really Maybe I just wanted to talk to someone! it is difficult to get active and it takes lots of sensitivity... I know that! It feels to me like a couple that has been beating and raping and hurting eachother - or rather one of the partners has done that to the other one - or brothers, as a comparison would be less incestous comparison - and now it is very hard to find ways to trust eachother again! But first step would be STOPPING THE ABUSE! And also saying sorry! Feeling guilty? Go to jail! ... Sit there for a few centuries.... (Paying restauration money to those countries would be an option!!) Paying back our guilt.................

Unknown Soldier · 10-12-2011, 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophie_Scholl

"Speak english or die"

You should take note of the above.

Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra · 10-12-2011, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophie_Scholl

Well, as I said, it was strange for myself too that this summer, when I thought about all of that thing, oil, power, politics, indigenous people, western countries, money WELL IMPERIALIST STRUCTURES, KAPITALIST MENTALITY, the poorest of Poor, DIGNITY, children without chances, AND ON THE OTHER HAND; "Us" having it all, all luxury from warm and cold water in each household, refridgorators are so "normal" to us that we don't even count them as an object of luxury, but as standard, television, cars, streetlights at night everywhere, supermarkets with tons of food in it and tons of food destroyed each day.... healthcare, options of traveling and being tourists, and all the more extreme luxuries of our white folks like plastic surgery, the extreme sports, the wish of staying youthful forever, becoming age of 80 or older.. while lots of people in other parts of the world have nothing - their land where they would just live and plant their own vegetable is taken, they are refugees, forced to move to big cities where there is not much electricity, not many schools, no internet, no jobs, maybe living in slums on piles of trash, catching diseases there, giving birth all by oneselve, not in a hospital... their children having to work as young as 5 years olds.... their liveexpectation in some countries like 40, 50 years old.... and and and. It is a crying shame and we all know! I always knew, but suddenly I FELT IT!!! In a way I am ashamed that it took me 34 years to feel it and cry about it! I ve never visited a third world country, (one of my next plan is to do so) but my family is multicultural, my aunt is from kyrgistan, ex sowjetunjon.... and the poorest country I ve visited so far might be turkey! Or, I was in Sarajevo (driving through bosnia) in 2002 - only 3 years after the war - and I 've seen extreme poverty and sadness and misery there.

Talking about my own political labelling or labelling for this thread - well, I would consider myself as a person that believes in non-violence very much. I vote socialist/democratic. Liberalism can be a good thing, BUT it also opens doors for cruel greedy capitalism. I prefer to have rules and laws than no laws at all or too liberal laws of which the greedy big business men profit more than the ones that start with little or nothing or below nothing...

AND - after all, I think we, the western rich ones (and even if you aren't "Rich" , like what one like us considers to be "rich" like being a millionaire, having a Rolls Royce or a Porsche and a fat villa or two in Aspen or Saint-Tropez) we are rich! BUT we hang in this together with the poor ones in lets say the miners of the congo or the mamas in the slums of nairobi.... if the rainforest dies, we are all gonna die of a global "smokers lung"!
And also there is so incredible much talent wasted in those poor countries, where people lack of employment, job opportunities, and and and. I don't get it why WE, the rich ones don't share with the poor LIKE just building STREETS; ELECTRICITY and INFRASTRUCTURE - LIke Hospitals - OR AT LEAST ask those poor countries if they would like our help or if that would feel for them als new colonialism and white superiority AGAIN.........

OH MAN I know I won't rescue this world on my own.... but... We here, our government, acts so civilized and all, but on the other hand, millions of millions die of hunger and in oil wars. OLD STORY, I know, but.... I feel like a lot of people tend to forget those poor people all the time, while we buy new parfumes, new fashion brands, go to destracting movies(e.g scary movie, or dumb and dumber), go in vacation, buy new designer furniture for our appartements, go to wellness spas to treat our cellulite - we are, quoting a famous book title of author Neil Postman, "Amusing ourselves to death"!
WHILE OUR RICHES ARE BUILT ON THE BLOOD OF OTHERS!!!! The oil and the raw material - hey, it really is.... OK, I end up lamenting here in this forum and it is not your fault dear metallers.... but recently I ended up searching for signs of selfreflection in white culture about this - statements about how we deal with the fact that our nations dominate the rest of the world.

Hiphop and Reggae and other Music from the other perspective, the perspective of being the victim, the one that was the slave and not the master - is full of statements of those conditions from slavery to being slaughtered.

And yes, Switzerland is one of the richest countries of all countries! I could do some more selfreflection on that too. Because we are a small country, the world doesn't talk about us so much....

Sry for being confusing and thanks again for bringing other bands up. I looked up the lyrics of "Speak english or die" and "Spreading the disease". by anthrax and this other band stormtroopers of death.

I think there are a lot of critical and cynical quotes to find in metal music - and for me, since from the sound of that music it is not sooo much my taste, this is a trip to an exotic country

Well, you seem to be running into a couple of problems.

Firstly, you don't seem to really sense the irony or fun in metal, or music in general. Not every form of music has to be direct, obvious, personal, and meaningful. Things like Stormtroopers of Death are kind of taking a piss on the pretension of what I would call a "Rockstar who is going to save the world" like Bono. Music can be about whatever, but the point of metal is, you don't really have to take it seriously.

It's like a good horror movie. I don't watch Nightmare on Elm Street and say "Damn, Freddy's killing all those kids... I wonder what that's doing to US's future labor force." I just sit back, and take it for what it is.

Secondly, this post was the clearest, but you tend to jumble words a lot. Trying organizing your thoughts a little bit.

Thirdly, Can you clarify your correlations. It seems firstly, you're talking of a rich white first world (which uh... produces equal if not MORE reggae, and Hip Hop than any nation. I mean, most hip-hop artists are black, but I guarantee you the majority of people promoting these acts are rich, and white). These genres are not really that much from the perspective of the poor. Reggae might have been, but has been popularized due to the associations with pot smoking by a white suburban America. You somehow are connecting this to metal music, which makes no sense at all.

If you want to aim to listen to a music that truly isn't run by the commercial infrastructure, don't read the lyrics. Buy music that's not promoted by American companies. Look into the folk musics of Africa, South America, Asia. Look into their pop musics as well. Anyone can write a lyric about anything, it doesn't matter.

Fourthly, I'm ignoring he possibility of you being a troll, because, when well guided, this topic may have some merit. I think however, metal as a scapegoat because it's violent lyrics is ridiculous, as college folk, and preachier genres are significantly more upper class, no matter how preachy they may be.

**Janszoon** · 10-12-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ska Lagos Jew Sun Ra

Fourthly, I'm ignoring he possibility of you being a troll, because, when well guided, this topic may have some merit. I think however, metal as a scapegoat because it's violent lyrics is ridiculous, as college folk, and preachier genres are significantly more upper class, no matter how preachy they may be.

Yep. And it's also worth noting that metal probably is more of a cross-cultural phenomenon than that type of folk. It has, after all, been latched unto as a form of expression all over the world, from latin America to southeast Asia to the Middle East.

The Batlord · 10-12-2011, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophie_Scholl

Paying restauration money to those countries would be an option!!

What, they have a McDonald's on every corner just like us.

Sophie_Scholl · 10-12-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

What, they have a McDonald's on every corner just like us.

yes, and a hilton hotel in every city too

by the way I am no troll - seriously.
Thanks for letting me hang out with you this lonely wednesday evening.

well, yankee man ....

The Batlord · 10-12-2011, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophie_Scholl

yes, and a hilton hotel in every city too

See, they're doing fine. Perhaps the Nigerians could send me some money.

Quote:

by the way I am no troll - seriously.
Thanks for letting me hang out with you this lonely wednesday evening.

As if we have a choice.

Quote:

well, yankee man ....

I, madam, am a proud Virginian and take offense to your unfair characterization of me as a damn Yankee, if you'll pardon my language, my dear.

Sophie_Scholl · 10-12-2011, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batlord

See, they're doing fine. Perhaps the Nigerians could send me some money.

Nigeria is I think called a "Schwellenland" in German, that means, as far as I am informed, something like a really doing not so bad but rather doing well developping country....

As if we have a choice.

sure! I was just coming along...

Quote:

Originally Posted by THe Batlord

I, madam, am a proud Virginian and take offense to your unfair characterization of me as a damn Yankee, if you'll pardon my language, my dear.

Jaaa....
I was called a Nazi and a Racist here earlier, and a Troll!

By the way, best Yankee song I know is sung by Athahualpa Ynpanqui - an Indian (well Peru I think, maybe Bolivia??).... and it is in spanish. The song is called Yankee Man. That Song crossed my memory right now...

10-12-2011, 12:12 AM	#21 (permalink)
hip hop bunny hop Music Addict Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 1,381	^^^ I don't get it, either. At first I thought she was angling from a sort of quasi-Maoist-Thirld Worldist view, but even those folks retain the standard Marxist view that Colonialism was, fundamentally, progressive. She hasn't angled a primitivism argument, either. Really, if this isn't a sockpuppet, it's just some weird brand of ethnocentric Liberalism. __________________ Have mercy on the poor.

10-12-2011, 03:28 AM	#22 (permalink)
Sophie_Scholl Groupie Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 18	Well, as I said, it was strange for myself too that this summer, when I thought about all of that thing, oil, power, politics, indigenous people, western countries, money WELL IMPERIALIST STRUCTURES, KAPITALIST MENTALITY, the poorest of Poor, DIGNITY, children without chances, AND ON THE OTHER HAND; "Us" having it all, all luxury from warm and cold water in each household, refridgorators are so "normal" to us that we don't even count them as an object of luxury, but as standard, television, cars, streetlights at night everywhere, supermarkets with tons of food in it and tons of food destroyed each day.... healthcare, options of traveling and being tourists, and all the more extreme luxuries of our white folks like plastic surgery, the extreme sports, the wish of staying youthful forever, becoming age of 80 or older.. while lots of people in other parts of the world have nothing - their land where they would just live and plant their own vegetable is taken, they are refugees, forced to move to big cities where there is not much electricity, not many schools, no internet, no jobs, maybe living in slums on piles of trash, catching diseases there, giving birth all by oneselve, not in a hospital... their children having to work as young as 5 years olds.... their liveexpectation in some countries like 40, 50 years old.... and and and. It is a crying shame and we all know! I always knew, but suddenly I FELT IT!!! In a way I am ashamed that it took me 34 years to feel it and cry about it! I ve never visited a third world country, (one of my next plan is to do so) but my family is multicultural, my aunt is from kyrgistan, ex sowjetunjon.... and the poorest country I ve visited so far might be turkey! Or, I was in Sarajevo (driving through bosnia) in 2002 - only 3 years after the war - and I 've seen extreme poverty and sadness and misery there. Talking about my own political labelling or labelling for this thread - well, I would consider myself as a person that believes in non-violence very much. I vote socialist/democratic. Liberalism can be a good thing, BUT it also opens doors for cruel greedy capitalism. I prefer to have rules and laws than no laws at all or too liberal laws of which the greedy big business men profit more than the ones that start with little or nothing or below nothing... AND - after all, I think we, the western rich ones (and even if you aren't "Rich" , like what one like us considers to be "rich" like being a millionaire, having a Rolls Royce or a Porsche and a fat villa or two in Aspen or Saint-Tropez) we are rich! BUT we hang in this together with the poor ones in lets say the miners of the congo or the mamas in the slums of nairobi.... if the rainforest dies, we are all gonna die of a global "smokers lung"! And also there is so incredible much talent wasted in those poor countries, where people lack of employment, job opportunities, and and and. I don't get it why WE, the rich ones don't share with the poor LIKE just building STREETS; ELECTRICITY and INFRASTRUCTURE - LIke Hospitals - OR AT LEAST ask those poor countries if they would like our help or if that would feel for them als new colonialism and white superiority AGAIN......... OH MAN I know I won't rescue this world on my own.... but... We here, our government, acts so civilized and all, but on the other hand, millions of millions die of hunger and in oil wars. OLD STORY, I know, but.... I feel like a lot of people tend to forget those poor people all the time, while we buy new parfumes, new fashion brands, go to destracting movies(e.g scary movie, or dumb and dumber), go in vacation, buy new designer furniture for our appartements, go to wellness spas to treat our cellulite - we are, quoting a famous book title of author Neil Postman, "Amusing ourselves to death"! WHILE OUR RICHES ARE BUILT ON THE BLOOD OF OTHERS!!!! The oil and the raw material - hey, it really is.... OK, I end up lamenting here in this forum and it is not your fault dear metallers.... but recently I ended up searching for signs of selfreflection in white culture about this - statements about how we deal with the fact that our nations dominate the rest of the world. Hiphop and Reggae and other Music from the other perspective, the perspective of being the victim, the one that was the slave and not the master - is full of statements of those conditions from slavery to being slaughtered. And yes, Switzerland is one of the richest countries of all countries! I could do some more selfreflection on that too. Because we are a small country, the world doesn't talk about us so much.... Sry for being confusing and thanks again for bringing other bands up. I looked up the lyrics of "Speak english or die" and "Spreading the disease". by anthrax and this other band stormtroopers of death. I think there are a lot of critical and cynical quotes to find in metal music - and for me, since from the sound of that music it is not sooo much my taste, this is a trip to an exotic country

10-12-2011, 06:09 AM	#23 (permalink)
Sophie_Scholl Groupie Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 18	hm - yes what do I want from you guys here? Well .... nothing really Maybe I just wanted to talk to someone! it is difficult to get active and it takes lots of sensitivity... I know that! It feels to me like a couple that has been beating and raping and hurting eachother - or rather one of the partners has done that to the other one - or brothers, as a comparison would be less incestous comparison - and now it is very hard to find ways to trust eachother again! But first step would be STOPPING THE ABUSE! And also saying sorry! Feeling guilty? Go to jail! ... Sit there for a few centuries.... (Paying restauration money to those countries would be an option!!) Paying back our guilt.................