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Music Banter (https://www.musicbanter.com/)
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-   -   Black Metal! (https://www.musicbanter.com/rock-metal/56876-black-metal.html)

Tsunami 10-28-2011 09:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1114334)
I think it's pretty stupid to say that Bathory aren't a black metal band just cause they don't sound like Darkthrone. Bathory, probably more than any other band, built the whole black metal template before any of the second wave of black metal bands ever even existed. Of course they don't sound like the second wave of black metal (the Norwegian scene) because they were too busy setting the groundwork for those bands to not just be a third rate version of the Swedish death metal scene.
I don't think it's that stupid. I personally don't care whether people consider the first wave of black metal black metal or thrash metal. Surely it's opinionated, very much so, but do you see people calling Slayer and Kreator death metal because they had a big influence on death metal?

hip hop bunny hop 10-28-2011 09:25 AM
Quote:
Of course I haven't listened to all of the albums by Bathory, but the early albums sure sound more thrash than black metal.
Which causes me to think you haven't listened to much black metal. Why should the norsecore sound be viewed as the golden standard of what "black metal" sounds like instead of the sound forged by the first wave bands?

Tsunami 10-28-2011 09:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1114344)
Which causes me to think you haven't listened to much black metal. Why should the norsecore sound be viewed as the golden standard of what "black metal" sounds like instead of the sound forged by the first wave bands?
Because Bathory is thrash metal.

hip hop bunny hop 10-28-2011 09:33 AM
No, they are black metal. For second wave black metal bands with a similar sound, see: Order from Chaos, Sarco***o, Blasphemy. For current bands: Midnight, Barbatos, Absurd.

Norsecore is not the be all, end all of black metal - thank god, otherwise the genre would suck.

EDIT:

I present to you Midnight. This is Bathory's debut in the 21st century.... pure ****ing black metal.

Tsunami 10-28-2011 09:35 AM
In that case all music should be called tribal music because the first kind of music was tribal music.

The Batlord 10-28-2011 09:46 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsunami (Post 1114340)
I don't think it's that stupid. I personally don't care whether people consider the first wave of black metal black metal or thrash metal. Surely it's opinionated, very much so, but do you see people calling Slayer and Kreator death metal because they had a big influence on death metal?
Slayer and Kreator may have been influential, but they did not basically invent the whole style that the next wave of bands would run with. Without Slayer, death metal would still have pretty much been the same. Without Bathory, who knows if there would be a black metal genre today, cause they pretty much invented it.

hip hop bunny hop 10-28-2011 09:47 AM
I enjoy your hyperbole, but really, why are you insinuating that the 2nd wave somehow defined the sound? If they had created the black metal sound, we'd be referring to them as first wave, would we not?

Tsunami 10-28-2011 09:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1114349)
Slayer and Kreator may have been influential, but they did not basically invent the whole style that the next wave of bands would run with. Without Slayer, death metal would still have pretty much been the same. Without Bathory, who knows if there would be a black metal genre today, cause they pretty much invented it.
I disagree with that, someone would have came up with it sooner or later.

Edit: Please, I cannot converse with two-three people at once without producing spam.

The Batlord 10-28-2011 09:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hip hop bunny hop (Post 1114350)
I enjoy your hyperbole, but really, why are you insinuating that the 2nd wave somehow defined the sound? If they had created the black metal sound, we'd be referring to them as first wave, would we not?
I mean that they invented the whole style that the Norwegian bands used, not black metal in general. I mean that if Bathory hadn't developed black metal as they did, black metal may have just stayed an uglier version of thrash metal and may have died out when death metal came along.

Tsunami 10-28-2011 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Batlord (Post 1114356)
I mean that they invented the whole style that the Norwegian bands used, not black metal in general. I mean that if Bathory hadn't developed black metal as they did, black metal may have just stayed an uglier version of thrash metal and may have died out when death metal came along.
What album(s) are we discussing about then?


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