The Groove Metal Thread

[LOLPOCALYPSE]

Originally Posted by BastardofYoung

Yeah. Metal mainstream alright... still, when looked at that way, why not make mainstream metal magazines? not like I expect to see somebody like Chuck Schuldiner or Trey Azagthoth on the cover of Hit Parader or Rolling Stone... but I would expect to see them get their due respects in a metal magazine, which would be read by the metal mainstream you are talking about.

Honestly I don't read any metal magazines so I don't know which ones you would be referring to. I was assuming you were talking about Metal Hammer or something (because you said "mainstream magazines" in an earlier post). In the case of a strictly metal magazine, I would agree that Chuck Schuldiner should have his name mentioned. I don't see many metal magazines here in Indiana (other than the ones that would go so far as to consider Green Day metal), but then again I don't look. I didn't even know there was a such thing as a non-mainstream magazine for any genre of music, especially since the whole magazine business is hurting. It is hard enough for them to make money, even when sucking on the tit of Chad Kroeger. Believe me, if such a thing exists let me know what mags I should be looking for.

[LOLPOCALYPSE]

Originally Posted by jackhammer

Pantera are the bridge band that many people got into in the early 90's that had elements of heaviness and groove.

Unfortunately many fans thought they were rather crap (myself included) and they just happened to be a band around at the right time to appeal to newcomers and some older hardcore fans.

I am rather glad that some friends cannot name Slipknot song names because they are not memorable at all.

This is not necessarily a slight on Slipknot but more the general decline of Metal music around this time and lack of identity that is only now starting to be rebuilt.

I will always accept that Slipknot helped a whole slew of kids get into Metal but their longevity is almost nil and their contribution to the scene is virtually nil even 10 years after they first appeared.

Success is fleeting. Longevity and lasting appeal earns brownie points.

I can understand where you are coming from to an extent, as I've noticed that MB metal people tend to be hostile towards anything touched by turntables or rap influence. But Slipknot has an identity (try to look passed the masks PLEASE). It just took them an album and a half to break away from the nu metal style. Slipknot have put themselves in a bad spot in that people only see them for their first album and thus toss them in with the generic nu metal bands. I am going to assume you have never heard their newest album (or possibly their 3rd). They show a lot of variety in their albums that sounds neither overproduced or too deliberate. Apart from a few singles ("Dead Memories", "Snuff", "Wait and Bleed"), Slipknot is a very original and distinctive band.

This is off topic anyway. I only brought Slipknot up to make a point, not to musically compare them to any band mentioned on this thread.

Bare in mind it was much easier to definitively break away from a tired glam and thrash formula than the multidimensional, multi-influenced music of today.

[jackhammer]

Originally Posted by LOLPOCALYPSE

I can understand where you are coming from to an extent, as I've noticed that MB metal people tend to be hostile towards anything touched by turntables or rap influence. But Slipknot has an identity (try to look passed the masks PLEASE). It just took them an album and a half to break away from the nu metal style. Slipknot have put themselves in a bad spot in that people only see them for their first album and thus toss them in with the generic nu metal bands. I am going to assume you have never heard their newest album (or possibly their 3rd). They show a lot of variety in their albums that sounds neither overproduced or too deliberate. Apart from a few singles ("Dead Memories", "Snuff", "Wait and Bleed"), Slipknot is a very original and distinctive band.

This is off topic anyway. I only brought Slipknot up to make a point, not to musically compare them to any band mentioned on this thread.

Bare in mind it was much easier to definitively break away from a tired glam and thrash formula than the multidimensional, multi-influenced music of today.

Mainstream Metal today is certainly NOT multidimensional, multi-influenced as it was once was.

Not all of us were put off by the turntable being introduced into Metal and were around for the first wave of this music.

[Metal Connoisseur]

Speaking on Pantera's mainstream-ness, they had a record debut at number 1 on the Billboard Charts. Far and away the heaviest record to ever do so. Are brownie points earned for that sort of legacy and longevity?

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Metal Connoisseur

Speaking on Pantera's mainstream-ness, they had a record debut at number 1 on the Billboard Charts. Far and away the heaviest record to ever do so. Are brownie points earned for that sort of legacy and longevity?

Yep Far Beyond Driven hit number 1 on the Billboard 100 and number 3 on the UK album chart, impressive for an album so heavy to achieve that feat.

[LOLPOCALYPSE]

Originally Posted by jackhammer

Mainstream Metal today is certainly NOT multidimensional, multi-influenced as it was once was.

Not all of us were put off by the turntable being introduced into Metal and were around for the first wave of this music.

Once you look passed the mainstream "metal" acts like Three Days Grace and those that are similar, there is a lot to like. I wouldn't expect to be blown away by a completely new sound anytime in the near future anyway. I wouldn't attribute this to a decline in metal as much as that everything has been tried. Even progressive bands like Opeth won't sound progressive once the industry becomes over saturated with similar acts.

[Metal Connoisseur]

To counter the comment made on Pantera directly contributing to the rise of nu-metal, I wouldn't say they had as much influence as say Korn, who basically invented the genre at the same time Pantera became successful. Also, from the groove metal camp, I'd say Machine Head was way more influential when it came to nu-metal and even made some nu metal records towards the late 90's. Glad to see they returned to form with The Blackening though.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by Metal Connoisseur

To counter the comment made on Pantera directly contributing to the rise of nu-metal, I wouldn't say they had as much influence as say Korn, who basically invented the genre at the same time Pantera became successful. Also, from the groove metal camp, I'd say Machine Head was way more influential when it came to nu-metal and even made some nu metal records towards the late 90's. Glad to see they returned to form with The Blackening though.

Pantera were successful long before Korn even arrived on the scene. I`d agree Pantera as such were not that influential on new metal, but groove metal as a whole was. Groove metal was kind of the creative link between thrash and NU-metal and the early Soulfly albums despite coming out after the Korn debut, demonstrated this link soundwise. Before that there is enough on the Sepultura albums "Chaos A.D" and "Roots" to suggest a heavy influence as well. I`d still say what Pantera are to groove, Korn are to Nu-metal.

Machine Head were not really that influential on Nu-metal, they just basically decided to record two Nu-Metal albums in "The Burning Red" and "Supercharger" largely because Nu-Metal was in and groove metal was out. I`d say White Zombie were far more influential as far as groove metal bands went, largely due to their funk metal influences and sampling.

[BastardofYoung]

If you wanna go with Machine Head, you might as well skip them and go with Fear Factory. Machine Head was essentially just a poor mans version of Fear Factory. "Soul of a New Machine" was the blueprint for "Burn My Eyes".

Robb Flynn doesn't do much for me though, first Machine Head was about the extent of my love for him, much better than the generic thrash of Vio-Lence.

But yeah, I say go with Fear Factory before Machine Head.

Can also be said that White Zombie were a crucial influence on Groove Metal, not that it seems like many people know they had 2 full lengths out before "La Sexorcisto"... I think their album "Make Them Die Slowly", which was released in 1989 could be seen as one of the first.

As for the nu-metal, I do not know if I would say Korn was the first... though they were the ones to bring it to the forefront. Biohazard is a band I would give some credit to as well. I do not know who would be considered the influence for the style though... Rage Against the Machine could also be seen as a major influence on the style, Faith No More as well.

[Unknown Soldier]

Originally Posted by BastardofYoung

If you wanna go with Machine Head, you might as well skip them and go with Fear Factory. Machine Head was essentially just a poor mans version of Fear Factory. "Soul of a New Machine" was the blueprint for "Burn My Eyes".

Robb Flynn doesn't do much for me though, first Machine Head was about the extent of my love for him, much better than the generic thrash of Vio-Lence.

But yeah, I say go with Fear Factory before Machine Head.

Can also be said that White Zombie were a crucial influence on Groove Metal, not that it seems like many people know they had 2 full lengths out before "La Sexorcisto"... I think their album "Make Them Die Slowly", which was released in 1989 could be seen as one of the first.

As for the nu-metal, I do not know if I would say Korn was the first... though they were the ones to bring it to the forefront. Biohazard is a band I would give some credit to as well. I do not know who would be considered the influence for the style though... Rage Against the Machine could also be seen as a major influence on the style, Faith No More as well.

Fear Factory were an industrial metal band with a groove element, so yer they were pretty influential as well.

Korn are like Pantera in that they are the first and most representative bands of their genres, as for who actually created the said genres....thats a more complex question.