The Unfan

I like Dream Theater, but the fanaticism over the band bugs me. They're nowhere near as great as their fans seem to think they are.

boo boo

This is the thing that annoys me. When you say things like this, you seem to imply that technical ability is some kind of shackle limiting people's creativity. IMO the exact opposite is true. I'm not saying technical skill is a necessity and as a Nirvana fan you should know better but I do think it can allow you to do much much more, if you can resist the urge to endlessly wank and ruin good material. Which I admit, Dream Theater are incapable of doing.

Everybody associates 70s prog with long solos but that's really only the case for bands like Yes and ELP.

King Crimson, Genesis, VDGG, Gentle Giant, etc, they didn't do any more solos or any longer solos than your typical rock band, their technical skill was expressed through their compositions.

I think there's only so much you can do when you have limited skill. You can start a punk band, a power pop band, a crappy avant garde noise rock band or you can become a folk singer.

But that's mostly it. Metal, Prog, Jazz, Country, R&B and Classical (when they're good) all require some basic understanding of music and the techniques that can be applied. Even a lot of Pop and Blues requires more chops than you'd think. A lot of the better Folk requires it, because contrary to popular belief there's more kinds of folk than just the Woodie Guthrie type stuff. Even Hip Hop and Electronica (when it's good) requires a perfect understanding of rhythm and timing, even working a turntable requires chops.

You rave about Aphex Twin a lot, well that guy makes some really intricate and complex music and it's not just something anybody can do. You don't think that requires a lot of skill? Even DJ's can be virtuosos.

It seems everyone thinks I'm this technical skill junkie even though I hate shred wankers just as much as the next person and I do like simple and primitive music.

Granted. When it comes to punk and indie, I find that the better bands tend to be the more technically competent ones. Punk didn't really get taken seriously as a form of art until new wave and post punk, when more instrumentally talented bands like Talking Heads and XTC came along.

I think Wilco and My Morning Jacket are the best modern indie bands and I think some of that credit should go to the fact that they can actually play their instruments, and play them well.

That's funny. I do too. I just prefer genres where it's usually required. Pink Floyd were probably the least gifted of all the A, B and C list 70s prog bands, on a technical level. But it's not like they were a bunch of incompetent cavemen. And prog is just one of many genres that requires at the very least, decent musicians.

I'm not saying punk doesn't have any. It has it's share of very talented musicians. But most genres have SOME kind of basic skill level that's required, some kind of standard being set. Punk doesn't have that at all. And thus I find there to be a greater influx of talentless dopes just hacking away at their instruments than any other genre, just making god awful noise and passing it off as rock n roll.

The early Rock N' Roll artists were also skilled musicians to an extent. The amount of speed and energy Little Richard put into his music was very hard to imitate. And he would have nothing but resentment for guys like GG Allen who call themselves "rock n roll" because they throw their own sh*t at people. It's insulting to real musicians.

Punk's philosophy is "Anybody can pick up an instrument and allow their voices to be heard".

MY philosophy is "Just because everybody can, doesn't mean everybody should".

No.

Not just anybody can. Because few people have the time, devotion, energy and patience. Simply being able to go through that learning process is a talent in itself.

I know how difficult it is to try and LEARN how to play an instrument. And for that I have to have respect for any musician that took the time to learn. Sure I'd rather listen to The New York Dolls than Dream Theater, but I know which band puts more care and effort into their work, and so I have more admiration for that band. I guess I'm just weird like that.

So you think talent is completely subjective?

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It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

lucifer_sam

ah, the Tool phenomenon.

and then people overcompensate by getting into five-page arguments over whether they can enjoy a band that's technically proficient.

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first.am

Comus

Yes, talent, when it comes to modern rock music, is completely subjective.

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last.fm

crash_override

No, just no. This thread was garbage from post #1.

Fruitonica

Talent is more than intrinsic artistic ability. Sure anyone can practice enough to be a virtuoso, but that doesn't stop the ones that do from being talented with their instruments. Talent can be developed through practice.

Urban Hat€monger ?

Skill

Not talent.

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boo boo

What's the difference between skill and talent?

Is skill something you work for and talent is just something you're born with? Or what?

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It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs

Urban Hat€monger ?

Sort of

In this case I think you can utilise your skill to express your talent in more sophisticated ways, but I don't think it makes it.

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boo boo

What would your top 20 artists look like?

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It's only knock n' knowall, but I like it

http://www.last.fm/user/kingboobs