The Batlord

You're making it sound like Metallica was a "trve metal" band before And Justice for All. They'd been flirting with non-thrash songs long before. About half of Ride the Lightning was melodic, in fact it was a much more radio friendly album than AJFA. Of course Master of Puppets had "Sanitarium". "One" was not a departure for the band, it was just more of the experimentation that they'd been doing since their second album. It wasn't even as melodic as "Fade to Black".

Someone mentioned that "Sad but True" was just another "Harvester of Sorrow", but they'd been making heavy, midtempo songs for years. "Leper Messiah" and "The Thing that Should Not Be" off Master of Puppets, and "Seek and Destroy" from Kill 'Em All.

I agree that they'd been flirting with commerciality before The Black Album, but they'd never let their core sound become as compromised, simplified, and stale as on The Black Album. Superficially it did sound like a Metallica record, but in fact it really sounds almost nothing like the Metallica of old.

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LOLPOCALYPSE

Don't worry, I would never use the term trve metal as a compliment. I still wouldn't say any flirtations were as strong as when "One" was released. Everything surrounding its creation seemed to have a more commercial vibe about it. Metallica, after being openly against MTV, broke down and made a music video for "One". Once against the media and MTV, you now have a band that has its own edition of the Guitar Hero video game. Interesting...

Anyway, I still don't think that the change in sound was as radical as it is made out to be (and it should have been expected, as I said, with the increasing popularity from the previously most accessible album, AJFA). AJFA sounds as arena-ready as any later Metallica releases, even if it was not intentional. "One" equally provides a gateway for those Limp Bizkit type listeners you mentioned before. I don't think the other previous melodic songs were nearly as accessible, as proven by initial sales and recognition of AJFA. It sold more than previous albums not because the band was growing a thrashy fanbase but rather because it was the most accessible Metallica album of the time. The Black Album was just the next step.

The Batlord

Really?


I am not defending Metallica's credibility. Lars can **** off and die. James can **** off and die. Kirk can **** off and die. And the two living bassists aren't even worth mentioning.


I'm tempted to just go and listen to the two albums back to back to see just how we're listening to these albums and apparently hearing two entirely different things. To me AJFA is even more brutal than MoP.


Again. I just don't understand this. At the beginning it's about as melodic as "Fade to Black", but then it turns into what I see as Metallica's most brutal song of all time. I mean at the end that song just ****ing destroys. I mean to me that's what AJFA is about. Welding melody (though usually never as melodic as RtL) to their heaviest most complex music ever. If AJFA can be seen as a gateway to the Black Album, then it's because Metallica just couldn't top it and decided to just go for the money cause they couldn't think of anything else to do.

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LOLPOCALYPSE

Never said you were defending Metallica's credibility. I was just making a side note I found interesting that had nothing to do with the rest of the post other than to show that Metallica's jump into commercialism and "selling out" started before The Black Album (hence why the Black Albums contents should not have been shocking).

AJFA on the whole isn't more brutal than any previous release. Especially not "One". At this point we probably are hearing different things. The only thing heavy about the end of "One" is the chug riffing at the end. Heaviness at its most basic. It is one of the reasons the song still finds more frequent radio play on my local "hard rock" station than any other Metallica song. Yes, a "hard rock" station (which they classify as some sort of false mixture of Nirvana, Linkin Park, Red Hot Chili Peppers, U2, Three Days Grace...you get the point). I'm not making this up. "One" was the song that put AJFA in the hands of mainstream suburban teen metal heads and drove the band to a new level of popularity. "Whiplash" didn't do it. "Fade to Black" didn't do it. Even the epic qualities of "Master of Puppets" didn't do it (the album found international, though not mainstream US success). "One" is a song that has a short streak of heaviness, but is ultimately as accessible as "Enter Sandman", despite any differences between the two. It wasn't as if suddenly the masses thought "hey, I just realized this band is pretty good". The only time this happens is when there is an abrupt musical change. The first one Metallica experienced was with AJFA (it went platinum after nine weeks). The second one was even more abrupt with The Black Album, made apparent by its success.

If simple chug riffing is your description of heavy than MAYBE "One" would be somewhere towards the top of the band's heaviest. But seriously, the brutal speed of "Whiplash" (or most anything else from Kill Em All) is way heavier all things accounted for, not to mention it goes through the whole song. "Fade to Black" may be melodic, but it just isn't built for the radio the way "One" happened to be. And even if it was, why didn't it get all the attention "One" did upon release? Melodic doesn't mean accessible.

One other thing that had an effect on The Black Album was the band's ability to perfom AFJA live. It wasn't that the songs were difficult, but rather they were too long. Another In Flames parallel. In Flames abandoned the melodic death metal sound because the songs simply didn't work live. Both these bands put emphasis on their live performances, and when the performances where negatively affected, the music changed. In Metallica's case, it meant shorter songs. It wasn't a simple matter of "going for the money", which is an accusation thrown around quite a bit in the metal community (for many bands, and for all it is equally annoying). Bands must enjoy what they do first and foremost. If you don't like what you play live, you won't last. Metallica's new direction wasn't just because they wanted to "sell out". They took a direction they could have fun with, and people happened to like it. I don't blame them for that.

Unknown Soldier

I can partly see the logic of your debate but there are one or two issues here. Do you really believe that the melodic death sound of In Flames wouldn`t work live? I think it was just more of a case of the band trying to put out a more commercially accessible sound and nothing more. Also, its no secret that the songs on AJA were too long (part of its charm really) but longs songs are seen as being less accessible to the music buying public than shorter ones and I think that has more to do with it than anything else. The long song was the in-thing in the 70`s especially by the prog brigade, but by the late 70`s onwards shorter songs in general have been the trend, especially if you want to appeal to the public.

Personally, I think Metallica just sold out for the Black Album, I`ve nothing against commercialism in a group but its pretty obvious that the plan of Hetfield and Ulrich was world domination and they only way to do that was to sell as many albums as they could and sell out as many shows as they could and The Black Album was the perfect solution.

Howard the Duck

i don't see any much complexity in In Flames' earlier melodic death sound - maybe the vocals are harsher and harder to carry off live but that's about it

but i'm speaking as one who likes IF's commercial sound so i'm the worst person to ask about them - my fave IF album is Reroute to Remain - the only IF I don't have is the debut and Whoracle

i think Metallica just got fed-up of having rabid metal fanboys and wanted a more diverse audience - add to that long complex songs are pretty exhausting to play live

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Malaise is THE dominant human predilection.

Unknown Soldier

If you listen to the brilliance of "Whoracle" their best album, you`ll see why I don`t like their more recent stuff.

Metallica basically followed a 3 step formula for world domination which worked:

Step 1: Dominate the thrash market which they did with "Kill Em All" and "Ride the Lightning"

Step 2: Dominate the metal market which they did with "Master of Puppets" and "AJA"

Step 3: Consolidate world domination which they did with "The Black Album" and its subsequent tour putting them in the same league as a band like U2. Once you reach this level you`re big for the rest of your career.

After this they could put out anything good or bad and it didn`t matter as they had reached the big league. It was a simple formula which worked, I doubt if Dave Mustaine had stayed with the band it would`ve worked though

Metal Connoisseur

Whoracle is an essential, and this isn't coming from an oldschool elitist, I love their new alt metal sound but that's beside the point. I'll have to look at lolpacalypse's link but i'm pretty sure not playing Jester Race and Whoracle stuff live had more to do with just the scale of the songs more than difficulty. For instance, it would be hard to reproduce "Jester Script Transfigured" night after night on a world tour. There are simply too many guitars, sound effects, and it would take considerable endurance to put out a quality death growl night after night as someone else pointed out.