We should judge it by sound....

I mean not the actual word punk.

When did MC5 start?

but then you get the argument of what "punk sound" is and isnt...
MC5 started in '66 - first album in '68

Yeah and alot of bands that 'started' punk..didnt really have punk fundamentals and style...

Well i would continue dicussiing.

But lunch is over and i need to go to school.

totally if this must be done the velvet underground

Personally i dont think they were really that punky..

They were a bigger influence on alternative rock than punk, though most post punk bands were VU influenced.

Yeah but if you go by who influenced it you could go like all the way to blues.

Cause ramones and clash and stuff were influenced by iggy and velvet underground who were influenced by the who and rolling stones who were influenced by etc...

i think i made this exact post somewhere else in this thread.

The Velvet Underground were more an influence on the art rock side of the punk movement, your Talking Heads , Television , Patti Smith types , and the British punks who went to art school (cept Lydon who hated them). If you want to get into the Velvet Underground expecting them to be an influnence on the 3 chord thrash type punk bands you are going to be very very disappointed.

well obviousley they not but they also had some avant garde

i think the #1 reason this topic gets so screwed is because there are so many differant ideas of what punk is.

Is it the sound? the look? the anti-everything attitude? lower-class? working-class?

there are probably a number of bands that can take the credit depending on what one would consider the foundation of punk is.