I dont find every artist who has recieved awards for their music amazing, and I never once said I did, so no, that isnt my logic, but if an artist receives agrammy award even once theyre obviously doing something right.

And instead of picking apart the guitar which maybe isnt the most complex at times, which by the way doesnt make a song 'bad' or 'suck', why dont you focus on the skill of their drummer Danny Carey, which is second to none. Hey to each his own, you may not like Tool, but that doesnt mean they suck. You never said directly that they suck but thats the vibe Im getting, the way they do things is a style all their own, theyre not out theyre making typical songs like a million other bands are doing that have no imagination. Tool is Tool, they've obviously done something right or they would have faded a long time ago.

Well, I guess I just disagree. I find Tool's music to be incredibly technical and incredibly layered. As a pianist/guitarist/ musician of over a decade who has attempted to play various Tool songs I've come to appreciate how musically technical they are, and how complex their musical structures are. They definitely use more than three or more chords in each song, and their timing definitely isn't awkward plucking, but incredibly tight and structured in terms of time signatures. I just don't understand how you can view Tool's songs as up-down-up-down chord plucking because I can't think of any songs that have that as a continuous structure. I guess we'll just have to disagree with each other because I just view Tool in a completely different way!

Green Day, Coldplay, Justin Timberlake, Lil Wayne, and Kanye West (for Graduation) are all exceptional, then?

Yeah yeah, Danny Carey is a good drummer. I never discredited him. I'm pointing out why I don't like Tool, why would I focus solely on a drummer who we all know is great?

I never said that complexity makes a song great. However, technicality is relative in metal, and Tool tries to accentuate on complexity, but they aren't as complex as people like to think - that's the point I'm making. Length is relative to monotony and repetition.

There was no point to even bringing up a negative vibe that you perceived, some people might take offense, or something, and it might lead to a battle of ad hominems.

Tool isn't very imaginative or cinematic or creative at all. Yeah, they make tons of revolutionary statements, like "Christianity is bad." Plus, they sound like a more commercially acceptable version of Isis, or Neurosis, you know, minus the grit and rawness and power, and plus a "deep and brooding" tone of melancholy. I'll never understand why people think, like, "monotony = deep!"

Please, don't continue to use arguments like, "they received awards!" or "they're still going strong!" to support why they're good or creative.

I just want to make it clear that I wasn't the one who made arguments based on Tool receiving awards. Arguments based on that are stupid.

I personally think Tool are incredibly cinematic and creative. Especially how they aim to combine the visual arts with their music, with their video clips made by Adam Jones and their collaboration with Alex Grey. I definitely think their music is a lot deeper than "Christianity is bad" (that made me laugh) but rather explores the concept of spirituality, existence, the collective consciousness, all that kind of stuff. I'm not saying that they're revolutionary or anything, but I do believe a lot of their songs do hold great meaning.

This is just my personal opinion, and obviously we disagree, but I think Tool are fantastic musicians who are profound, technical, clever, interesting, and creative. I enjoy the length of their songs and never get bored or think they are monotonous. Like I said up there ^^, as a musician myself I just really appreciate the technicality, difficulty, and creativity of their music.

So lyrics are taking a backseat these days? I personally find that tool's and APC's lyrics to be of quite a high caliber. And how can you say they're monotonous? Tool is quite varied as an artist and I find their variety quite refreshing, sorry if you don't feel the same way, but I guess opinions are what make the world go round

I already stated how I felt about their lyrics and why I see them as monotonous...

I don't understand how you could say you think tool lyrics aren't deep and imaginative. I listen to CTTS and I still think tool's lyrics are pretty deep and complex.

I think arguing about a band's merits is dumb. If you like it you like it, if you don't you don't. No amount of arguing is going to change someone's taste.

I enjoy listening to Tool. I couldn't give a fuck about the meaning behind their songs and how complex or simple the music is. Their album sales and position in the charts mean even less to me.

Also I should voice my opinion, as I'm sure many others have before me, that it makes little sense to have Tool and A Perfect Circle share a thread. What's next, we're gonna group Faith No More and Fantômas, Pantera and Down, Nirvana and Foo Fighters, Queen and Bad Company single threads? ;)

I appreciate the complexity / technical prowess of their music, but that would be all rather pointless if it didn't MOVE me... and ****, you gotta take your hat ofrf to a band that can play all that complicated music and still have you feeling such a strong emotional response... whether its the philosophy of Lateralus or 10000 Days or the armageddon storytelling of Aenema... the band illicits such a strong and evocative response, you can't help but be amazed. I love'em...

I've always thought this and it has annoyed me how Tool/APC share the same thread. Boo. They are completely different musical entities; they only share one similar member so it's assumed they are the same thing. No.