yes, i know that, but that doesn't mean i can't enjoy what they do. it doesn't mean that i have to completely shun their work because they do things or play in a way that isn't that great. they still have good stuff in my opinion.

it seems that you're only dissing Slipknot because of certain pressures that they're a bad band. you'll never be able to fully appreciate music if you're stuck on what other people think about it. if you like music, then you like it, no shame in that.

I think some of you guys reached a point where you think you listen to way too much music that you begin to think that popular underground music is mediocre. If you honestly can't appreciate tool and Maynard's voice; I can't believe that I even muttered that phrase... then I guess go right ahead, lol

Let me give you guys another singer to bash:
Anthony Green

Have fun

I don't listen to them because I don't like them and I explained why. It's not just that I don't appreciate their image, although that certainly doesn't help.

What do you mean by "Certain pressures"? I think they are a bad band, it's not because I'm under "pressures" to believe that they are. I think that taste only goes so far and that there are other factors that determine whether a band is good or not; in the case of Slipknot, their stage show is indicative of their attitude towards their music and colours their creative process in a way that creates music I dislike. In my opinion, they also write boring riffs and mediocre lyrics.

"Popular underground" is the most hilarious oxymoron I've ever heard; it's doubly funny because it makes you seem like you're trying to claim that they are underground (aka not pop music) while saying that it doesn't matter that they're popular. That's irrelevant though; it's not about the fact that the band is undoubtedly popular, it's the fact that it's mediocre. I think the more you get into music and the more bands you discover, the more contempt you gain for many popular groups that have obviously undeserved fame considering how many other amazing bands are out there. I constantly wish that a lot of the better bands out there were more popular and were able to make as much money and get as much mainstream respect. At the end of the day though, I don't get along with or agree with the majority of people, and saying that I'm an idiot for not enjoying Maynard's vocals or appreciating Tool because everybody else does is ridiculous.

Of course I knew it was an oxymoron, I was going to include it in parentheses but I found no just justification in doing so. They are a popular underground band, and I justify this by saying that though they aren't mainstream, they are well known in the rock community. Let me give a simple example:

Saetia and Fugazi are popular underground emo bands (because basically everyone who listens to underground emo WILL know them)

Trapdoor F**king Exit and Yfere are more obscure, I hope you understand the distinction.

I know where you're coming from about undeserving artists and bands obtaining more than their fair share, believe me, I understand that contradiction completely and am in utter abhorrence with it as well. But you honestly think that Maynard doesn't deserve it? Even his work with APC is amazing. The only side project I'd agree with you where he isn't at his best is Puscifer. Not too into it.

But dude, Brena still gives me chills... gimme gimme gimme is amazing. Sober is one of the best lyrically written songs. You have to give the man his props dude. He truly is an amazing artist.

Aaron Jenkins

I think Shagrath from Dimmu Borgir has an excellent vocal style, and he sounds absolutely sick live.

well my mistake then, from your previous post it seemed like you were trying to force your opinion of them on me like i was at fault with my opinion. but yeah, while those are valid points, i'm sure you can understand that it's not what i always look for in music. it's an important thing, mind you, but sometimes certain stuff has a feeling to it that i can appreciate.

anyway, if you can respect my opinion of them and i can respect yours, then we have nothing further to discuss.

He's not bad, but I actually forgot to consider their drummer. He is actually a great singer, there are definitely better singers out there but the fact that he can project his voice during some of those crazy fills is actually pretty impressive(go listen to Desperate Times, Desperate Measures)

howard jones owns all metalcore vocalists. Including the dude from underoath.

No, it's bad enough that you're ignorant and close minded to other genres. Now you're being ignorant when it comes to metalcore? It's almost all you listen to, you should be an expert, not an idiot. Come on man, pull it together. Killswitch Engage is NOT cool.