Metallica

TheBig3 · 08-06-2009, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Whereas Load is a completely different thing, a hard rock denser sound with a strong blues element and even Lynyrd Skynyrd sound on some songs, no real singles etc. The group were not looking to build on Black but trying something totally different.

I actually liken Load to Led Zeppelin`s Houses of the Holy, Zeps experimental album (not sound wise though) and after the success of Led Zeppelin IV the group just wanted a change of direction and experiment and I think Metallica were seeking to do the same with Load

I'd say this is accurate. When you advance an art form as far as Metallica did, you may be burned out. Its also hard to imagine finding something better than some of those early albums.

If thats the sound you're looking for, Puppets perfected it. So what should you do? Keep making ****tier versions of Puppets?

Changing their sound was them playing something that they enjoyed and was more appropriate. The worst thing an artist can do is try and duplicate their old records when they don't feel that way any more.

It seems to say: People liked me when I was angry, so I'm going to try and be angry again.

The kids barking for thing like "make more old sounding records" ahve little to no life experience. They don't understand theres a finite limit to things, they don't understand why and how things change. Their either 16 and think the world is black and white or their 40 and still dress like they did when they were 16 and that the world is black and white.

Unknown Soldier · 08-06-2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

I'd say this is accurate. When you advance an art form as far as Metallica did, you may be burned out. Its also hard to imagine finding something better than some of those early albums.

If thats the sound you're looking for, Puppets perfected it. So what should you do? Keep making ****tier versions of Puppets?

Changing their sound was them playing something that they enjoyed and was more appropriate. The worst thing an artist can do is try and duplicate their old records when they don't feel that way any more.

It seems to say: People liked me when I was angry, so I'm going to try and be angry again.

The kids barking for thing like "make more old sounding records" ahve little to no life experience. They don't understand theres a finite limit to things, they don't understand why and how things change. Their either 16 and think the world is black and white or their 40 and still dress like they did when they were 16 and that the world is black and white.

Thash in itself is bloody basic, just play super fast, heavy and aggressively and you`ve got thrash. I still think Slayer`s Reign in Blood the best example of a pure thrash record, 29 mins of pure hell.

I think Metallica quickly evolved thrash, slowed it down and even by Ride the Lightning had incorporated melody and longer song structures. Puppets though, was just the pinnacle of all this and their masterpiece, as for where they were going to go, I suppose they were faced with two obvious options and that was to go more complex than Puppets which they tried to with Justice or just get commercialized which they did later on with the Black album.

Totally agree with you about the evolution of a band and once you`ve achieved the pinnacle of your sound its time to move on. I think the yardstick of any band out there, should be the Beatles because their evolution from the poppy "Love me do" to the albums of Sgt Pepper and then onto Abbey Road are quite simply amazing and all this in just 7 years!!! Whereas say AC/DC, have been banging out the same sound for like over 30 years with little change!!!

Also as far as thrash goes, I was never actually a fan of James Hetfield`s style of singing and far preferred that of either Dave Mustaine or Tom Araya but I admit his dominant, loud voice was most suited to Metallica`s sound, I think though, that on Load his voice had also evolved along with the groups change in musical direction and think is vocal display on that album to be very good.

All in all I think Puppets is their best album but Load suprised me, that they could do a hard blues rock sound as well as they did.

Mojo · 08-06-2009, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

My opinion of Metallica is basically this, the first 2 albums are simply thrash metal, whereas Puppets and Justice are the group bringing in a more complex and progressive sound, this was then followed up by the Black Album which as stated above was designed to make the group the biggest act on the planet, despite not being a fan of the album it does contain singles, big riffs but most importantly from a commercial aspect a big clean easy to listen to sound, the heaviness is still there but its just all been polished up, which is why so many people everywhere say they love Metallica, despite not being metal fans. I think from their first album to Black is just the natural process of a group seeking world dominance.

Whereas Load is a completely different thing, a hard rock denser sound with a strong blues element and even Lynyrd Skynyrd sound on some songs, no real singles etc. The group were not looking to build on Black but trying something totally different.

I actually liken Load to Led Zeppelin`s Houses of the Holy, Zeps experimental album (not sound wise though) and after the success of Led Zeppelin IV the group just wanted a change of direction and experiment and I think Metallica were seeking to do the same with Load

Yeah I would agree with pretty much most of this. If thats what Metallica wanted to achieve with the Load and Reload albums then I still would say that I would have hoped for them do so with a little more success rather than records that just seemed to struggle a little with the transition and were never really going anywhere.

Mojo · 08-06-2009, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Totally agree with you about the evolution of a band and once you`ve achieved the pinnacle of your sound its time to move on. I think the yardstick of any band out there, should be the Beatles because their evolution from the poppy "Love me do" to the albums of Sgt Pepper and then onto Abbey Road are quite simply amazing and all this in just 7 years!!! Whereas say AC/DC, have been banging out the same sound for like over 30 years with little change!!!

I think thats something deserving of respect though, do you not? Bands like Motorhead and AC/DC have recycled the same sound over and over for decades. There has been very little variation in their sound from record to record. With those bands, you pretty much know what to expect. However most bands wouldn't last that long if they werent going to mix things up a bit, if they hadnt settled on a sound and decided "To hell with it, this is how we want to sound" and although there are always gonna be poorer albums, weaker albums in any bands back catalogue I think both AC/DC and Motorhead have managed to maintain a degree of consistency without ever really bringing anything else to the table.

Failure to evolve can certainly kill some bands but others are just good enough to make it work for them.

Unknown Soldier · 08-06-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojopinuk

I think thats something deserving of respect though, do you not? Bands like Motorhead and AC/DC have recycled the same sound over and over for decades. There has been very little variation in their sound from record to record. With those bands, you pretty much know what to expect. However most bands wouldn't last that long if they werent going to mix things up a bit, if they hadnt settled on a sound and decided "To hell with it, this is how we want to sound" and although there are always gonna be poorer albums, weaker albums in any bands back catalogue I think both AC/DC and Motorhead have managed to maintain a degree of consistency without ever really bringing anything else to the table.

Failure to evolve can certainly kill some bands but others are just good enough to make it work for them.

I think if you can`t evolve as a band (Can`t or don`t want to) then continue to do what you do best and that is what both Motorhead and AC/DC have done. Rock is littered with groups that have tried to evolve their sound and just couldn`t.

Agree, if you put on an AC/DC or Motorhead record you always know what to expect.

TheBig3 · 08-06-2009, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

Thash in itself is bloody basic, just play super fast, heavy and aggressively and you`ve got thrash. I still think Slayer`s Reign in Blood the best example of a pure thrash record, 29 mins of pure hell.

I think Metallica quickly evolved thrash, slowed it down and even by Ride the Lightning had incorporated melody and longer song structures. Puppets though, was just the pinnacle of all this and their masterpiece, as for where they were going to go, I suppose they were faced with two obvious options and that was to go more complex than Puppets which they tried to with Justice or just get commercialized which they did later on with the Black album.

Totally agree with you about the evolution of a band and once you`ve achieved the pinnacle of your sound its time to move on. I think the yardstick of any band out there, should be the Beatles because their evolution from the poppy "Love me do" to the albums of Sgt Pepper and then onto Abbey Road are quite simply amazing and all this in just 7 years!!! Whereas say AC/DC, have been banging out the same sound for like over 30 years with little change!!!

Also as far as thrash goes, I was never actually a fan of James Hetfield`s style of singing and far preferred that of either Dave Mustaine or Tom Araya but I admit his dominant, loud voice was most suited to Metallica`s sound, I think though, that on Load his voice had also evolved along with the groups change in musical direction and think is vocal display on that album to be very good.

All in all I think Puppets is their best album but Load suprised me, that they could do a hard blues rock sound as well as they did.

a couple points...

1. The thing about the Beatles is, most would argue they got better with the change. (I know I would.) Pop has always been a tough genre to be the best in because the goal is to be as appealing as possible to the most people. And I have to commend the Beatles for doing that better than everyone else.

But Metallica took a genre that was lucky to have its own designation and sky rocket it to a genre that could have platnium selling records.

For them, they started at the top essentially. Even Kill 'Em All which isn't terribly good, their still at the top of the genre. As Kerry King said by 1988 there were 100 thrash bands out there and 98 of them were ****.

2. About Hetfields voice. I feel like it does fit as you mentioned with the over all sound. Its short blasts and barks which is highly chracteristic of the band. Its almost like Eminem, who at his height would make the very flow of his raps become part of the beat in the songs.

Unknown Soldier · 08-06-2009, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheBig3KilledMyRainDog

a couple points...

1. The thing about the Beatles is, most would argue they got better with the change. (I know I would.) Pop has always been a tough genre to be the best in because the goal is to be as appealing as possible to the most people. And I have to commend the Beatles for doing that better than everyone else.

But Metallica took a genre that was lucky to have its own designation and sky rocket it to a genre that could have platnium selling records.

For them, they started at the top essentially. Even Kill 'Em All which isn't terribly good, their still at the top of the genre. As Kerry King said by 1988 there were 100 thrash bands out there and 98 of them were ****.

2. About Hetfields voice. I feel like it does fit as you mentioned with the over all sound. Its short blasts and barks which is highly chracteristic of the band. Its almost like Eminem, who at his height would make the very flow of his raps become part of the beat in the songs.

The Beatles were outstanding individuals especially when George Harrison stepped out of the shadow of McCartney and Lennon, so their evolution was natural given the talent in the band.

As you say Metallica almost created the genre on their own and I imagine that Kerry King would have been correct in saying that most thrash bands would`ve been ****. So given that they were the leaders of the genre, all eyes would`ve been on them and for the sake of the thrash scene they evolved it.

I can put on a either a Metallica CD or a Slayer CD for friends of mine that don`t like metal and most will find the Metallica CD appealing (probably would`ve heard the songs before anyway) and dismiss Slayer as a violent agressive noise etc and not like it. The fact that both are thrash makes no difference to them, the fact is that Metallica are listenable to them and probably explains why both Bryan Adams and Bon Jovi fans buy their records. I know the thought of this, probably wants to make you vomit but Metallica wanted to reach the masses and this is what the masses like unfortunately.

Mojo · 08-06-2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unknown Soldier

I think if you can`t evolve as a band (Can`t or don`t want to) then continue to do what you do best and that is what both Motorhead and AC/DC have done. Rock is littered with groups that have tried to evolve their sound and just couldn`t.

Agree, if you put on an AC/DC or Motorhead record you always know what to expect.

So, was your comment about AC/DC banging out the same stuff for decades a negative assesment of the band or not? I'm starting to think it wasn't but thats how I read it.

Regardless, I may have disagreed with some of the things you have said but I have rarely had an intelligent argument with people on this site who have the relatively low post count that you do. Stick around.

Unknown Soldier · 08-06-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojopinuk

So, was your comment about AC/DC banging out the same stuff for decades a negative assesment of the band or not? I'm starting to think it wasn't but thats how I read it.

Regardless, I may have disagreed with some of the things you have said but I have rarely had an intelligent argument with people on this site who have the relatively low post count that you do. Stick around.

My comment about AC/DC was neither positive or negative really, it was just a factual statement.

As for the second point, to really understand music a person has to be open to debate, have an open mind and expose themselves to listening to all types of genres, music like most good things is a constant learning curve.

scottsy · 08-06-2009, 11:49 PM

All this Metallica talk really has me wanting to listen to the early stuff right through to the Load and Reload stuff... kinda curious after all this discussion to see how all this musial progression sounds...

08-06-2009, 11:49 PM	#250 (permalink)
scottsy Untalented Drummer Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Sussex, Wisconsin Posts: 2,900	All this Metallica talk really has me wanting to listen to the early stuff right through to the Load and Reload stuff... kinda curious after all this discussion to see how all this musial progression sounds... __________________ "If you're like me, then it's possible you're a clone generated from my stolen DNA. I suggest you turn yourself in for destruction immediately" - Shaun Micallef.