200 greatest guitarists in rock

boo boo · 07-24-2009, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuneman1

your idea of prog is so skewed. you just keep proving you don't listen to DT, and are completely ignorant on what they do. They pull elements of classical, jazz, world, arabic, and every other form of music. They play atonally, they constantly switch time signatures, and do things that no other bands have done. They have produced several concept albums and continually exersize deep knowledge of music theory.

How does this make them different from any other prog band?

Oh yeah, they're not actually doing anything progressive or worth listening to.

DT stick to the same tired prog metal formula over and over. They don't take risks and while they're certainly talented, they have the ability to reinvent themselves and do something fresh and interesting, they simply choose not to, which I think is even worse than not being able to do it in the first place.

They have stayed pretty much the same for over 20 years. For them not to try and free themselves of the creative shackles they have limited themselves with, it's not very faithful to what prog rock is all about.

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They use every mode, every scale, every piece of knowledge in their musical arsenal.

Even the worst prog bands can do that, the important thing is how they use it.

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Now if you want melodic playing, that is not fast, like I mentioned, Petrucci has produced more of those solos than Hendrix. Now also, to say that you can't be fast and melodic is stupid. You can have the same melody, but simply add in extra notes.

Yes and sometimes you can do some great things with a lot of notes, but sometimes you can do a lot with very few.

I don't consider Petrucci to be a very melodic player, I'm sure he has material that is very melodic, but that just makes me think less of him, that means he chooses to do nothing but wank, rather than being incapable of doing anything else.

But either way, there's other highly technical guitarists who have a better understanding of melody than he does, Buckethead and Eric Johnson for example.

As for Hendrix, I have yet to hear Petrucci do anything on the level of melodic brilliance that Hendrix has done, especially with songs like Little Wing.

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So instead of giving lets say and A a whole beat (quarter note for this example), you could play 4 16th notes where you play the A maj arpegio and then end on an A. Melodically, this would have the same effect as just playing an A, but also add more color.

The idea that playing fast and playing melodically are mutually exclusive, is stupid.

I never said they were.

If you want a fast AND melodic player. Try John Mclaughlin or Al di Meola.

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Also if influence on other guitarists is an important factor on your list, where is Segovia, Carcassi, Sor, Tarrega, or Paco de Lucia?

None of them are rock guitartists.

Mojo · 07-24-2009, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuneman1

No if you have an opinion that is fine. However, that opinion has to be based on logic in order to not be subject to objective critique

Shame thats not what were getting.

Urban Hat€monger ? · 07-24-2009, 05:37 PM

To be fair his argument is steeped in logic.

It's pretty logical that a Dream Theater fanboy will totally miss the point of what good music actually is.

Tuneman1 · 07-24-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Urban Hatemonger

To be fair his argument is steeped in logic.

It's pretty logical that a Dream Theater fanboy will totally miss the point of what good music actually is.

Im not even that much a DT fanboy, i think they are great, but I think a lot of other bands are great. But talent wise, Petrucci has to be top, and to other famous guitarists he is extremely influential. I forgot which magazine did it, but they polled tons of modern rock guitarists on the most influential guitarists. He was in the top 15 I think. Its not just Petrucci that makes this list outrageous. I am citing him because its one of the worst parts of your list.

For example to think that Stevie Ray Vaughan didnt accomplish more, was less talented, or influential than Scotty More is ridiculous.

boo boo · 07-24-2009, 05:59 PM

What is your beef with 50s rock n roll?

There wouldn't be sh*t without Bo Diddley or Scotty Moore.

Unknown Soldier · 07-24-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo boo

That's one thing I hate about DT fans, most of them are metal fans who wouldn't know prog if it bit them in the ass. So yeah, if you only listen to DT and Symphony X, don't call yourself a prog fan, I can't stand that.
.

I`m a big DT fan that actually got into them after being a big prog rock fan for many years, so not all are just metal fans first.

Symphony X never really liked them but I do like Fate`s Warning.

lucifer_sam · 07-24-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuneman1

Im not even that much a DT fanboy, i think they are great, but I think a lot of other bands are great. But talent wise, Petrucci has to be top, and to other famous guitarists he is extremely influential. I forgot which magazine did it, but they polled tons of modern rock guitarists on the most influential guitarists. He was in the top 15 I think. Its not just Petrucci that makes this list outrageous. I am citing him because its one of the worst parts of your list.

For example to think that Stevie Ray Vaughan didnt accomplish more, was less talented, or influential than Scotty More is ridiculous.

who the hell has ever been influenced by Petrucci outside of the shredhead and wankery community?

boo boo · 07-24-2009, 09:45 PM

If you think that guy is a technical skill nut, I should introduce you to an ol' DDD buddy of mine. Troy Ponce de Leon (actual name).

Here's a list he made.

100 Greatest Rock Music Ensembles

3. Steve Vai 2001 - Steve Vai (g), Tony MacAlpine (g,k), Virgil Donati (d), Dave Weiner (g), Billy Sheehan (b)
10. Dream Theater - John Petrucci (g), Jordan Rudess (k), John Myung (b), Mike Portnoy (d)
11. Symphony X - Michael Romeo (g), Michael Pinnella (k), Thomas Miller (b), Jason Rullo (d)

...

39. Black Sabbath - Tony Iommi (g), Geezer Butler (b), Bill Ward (d)
40. The Who - Pete Townshend (g), John Entwistle (b), Keith Moon (d)
42. Led Zeppelin - Jimmy Page (g), John Paul Jones (b), John Bonham (d)

Need I say more?

crash_override · 07-24-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boo boo

If you think that guy is a technical skill nut, I should introduce you to an ol' DDD buddy of mine. Troy Ponce de Leon (actual name).

Here's a list he made.

100 Greatest Rock Music Ensembles

3. Steve Vai 2001 - Steve Vai (g), Tony MacAlpine (g,k), Virgil Donati (d), Dave Weiner (g), Billy Sheehan (b)
10. Dream Theater - John Petrucci (g), Jordan Rudess (k), John Myung (b), Mike Portnoy (d)
11. Symphony X - Michael Romeo (g), Michael Pinnella (k), Thomas Miller (b), Jason Rullo (d)

...

39. Black Sabbath - Tony Iommi (g), Geezer Butler (b), Bill Ward (d)
40. The Who - Pete Townshend (g), John Entwistle (b), Keith Moon (d)
42. Led Zeppelin - Jimmy Page (g), John Paul Jones (b), John Bonham (d)

Need I say more?

So THATS why you don't use that forum anymore... got ya.

Tuneman1 · 07-25-2009, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucifer_sam

who the hell has ever been influenced by Petrucci outside of the shredhead and wankery community?

Well me, but also a lot popular groups now. Gosh I can't even think what you guys think of some jazz guitarists if you think Petrucci is all about wankery.

How can you listen to to something like the octavarium solo (youtube it) and think it is wanking... you guys just dont know DT...

07-24-2009, 05:37 PM	#583 (permalink)
Urban Hat€monger ? The Sexual Intellectual Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Somewhere cooler than you Posts: 18,605	To be fair his argument is steeped in logic. It's pretty logical that a Dream Theater fanboy will totally miss the point of what good music actually is. __________________ Urb's RYM Stuff Most people sell their soul to the devil, but the devil sells his soul to Nick Cave.